You’re wrong then, since yes the game was released like that. Freshly crafted items always fell within a small range of power of the best that you ever crafted. IIRC the value was five, so a player who had finally finished the one time grind of reaching 300 item power would always craft an item within 295 and 300 item power. Any weapon, even a grey, could be upgraded to orange in moments with a small sum of green and blue dust. Basically the entry-level orange crafted weapons in vermintide were better relative to fully optimal gear than shoptide’s “god rolls” are relative to theoretically perfect guns.
What was missing at launch was the ability to downgrade blue dust to green dust (a lesson that fatshark failed to learn from since they pathetically fell into the same trap again with diamantine and plasteel). The ability to deconstruct red items into red dust to craft red items also wasn’t present at launch for vermintide.
There just isn’t much of a difference between a random item power grey crafted weapon and a min-maxed red. Unlike in shoptide, the grey still mostly performs the same. There isn’t that much variance between crafting a random weapon in seconds vs min-maxing a red. You couldn’t roll garbage base damage in vermintide since a 300 item power grey had identical base damage to a 300 item power red. Weapon blessings also were not as outrageous as those in darktide. The biggest damage boost possible in vermintide from your blessings was the 20% attack speed boost from swift slaying. There was nothing grossly OP like slaughter granting a strength pot’s worth of power boost every time that you entered combat, and even then everyone who wanted SS could just give themselves swift slaying in a few seconds by crafting it straight onto the weapon. Random drop reds were mostly desired for their fancy cosmetic skins.
In vermintide, you didn’t NEED min-maxed red weapons because you weren’t going to even notice the difference between a min-maxed red and a generic crafted orange unless you had spent a long time crunching numbers in a breakpoint calculator to learn precisely which breakpoints the carefully crafted combination of damage boosts let you cross. In shoptide you don’t NEED a perfect weapon because technically you can clear anything with a rusty spoon if your skill is great enough.
As a final note, I welcome everyone in this community to stop calling this game darktide and start calling it shoptide. Fatshark’s actions have shown that they care a great deal about their RNG-shop. They care about that RNG shop a hell of a lot more than they care about us players. That’s fatshark’s primary focus. The RNG shop for our gear, and the cosmetic shop for our money. As a community let’s recognize fatshark’s priorities by using the appropriate title for this game: SHOPTIDE. Not just in this community, but everywhere else. Reddit, youtube, twitch, everywhere. Maybe if that name starts trending enough, then fatshark might start re-evaluating where their priorities should lie.
did not see that red weapons were here at release of VT2 btw…
From what I have read, they were not and the crafting was differently handled.
Here a post of this thread:
You said I am wrong… I only said that not everything was here at the release of VT2 and that it took time… I said nothing more.
And in your own post you said that there was things that were added later… why do you think they don’t have any plan like that for DT?
Crafting 300 item power weapons was always possible in vermintide. We simply couldn’t craft reds in the original build. It was a singular grind to 300 item power and then you could craft as many orange 300 item power weapons for every character that you wished. You could put whatever trait/blessing that you wanted on it in just a few moments, and our equivalent to curios could be shared between every single one of our characters. Rolling two perfect properties was impractical but, unlike in shoptide, the difference between an orange with imperfect properties and an optimized red wasn’t noticeable if you hadn’t done the breakpoint math to know precisely what you were looking for.
To match the number of 300 item power oranges that you could craft in vermintide from one single short play session would require months of grinding in shoptide.
To put things in perspective to how things were in vermintide, it would be as if EVERY SINGLE WEAPON from Brunt’s armory had a base modifier score between 395 and 400. All of them all the time. Even the theoretical perfect god roll in shoptide doesn’t approach a random bottom of the barrel trash craft in vermintide. We could just put the blessings that we wanted on the guns with no restrictions. No locks, we could just reroll everything whenever we wanted. Only getting perfect rolls on both properties was impractical without having a red weapon, but even a “perfect orange” is a lot easier than getting a good roll in shoptide.
The players are being treated dirty by fatshark in shoptide. Full stop. It’s insulting. They’re treating this like it is raid shadow legends or whatever the other big exploitive F2P mobile gacha-games are these days, but honestly even those games generally have pity mechanics in place of which we have none.
Yeah sure VT2 was not in the same state at launch than it is now. Then again that is a very mute point because that is true for any game released in the last 15 to 25 years.
What is however worth highligting: the state of crafting in VT2 compared to VT2s state today are far closer together than DT at launch and DT even now.
Comparetively, the devs already had to do more work to get DT where it is today and it’s inargueable that they have much further to go still.
While sure, VT2 started out needing improvements for sure (and still does) it simply can’t hope to compare to the quality and quantity of changes that DT needed and still needs.
You’re point of “give it time, it worked like that in VT2 as well” is a rather mute point as well as the fact that any reasonable person would expect them to have to work less to polish their product since they made it with the experience of the previous product…
Ofc this point doesn’t fully translate for a few reasons but it’s a reasonable expectation.
Who would work on a project and “finish” it and then start a new, similar, project that they then have to work even more on to polish? Making more work for yourself when you have gained prior experience is just not a good look…
Because in V2, they learned and made it better, they have to forget everything and release Darktide in an even worse state, instead of applying everything they (should have) learned from their other game?
It sounds like you are supporting them making the same mistake over and over again, never learning and changing their approach.
If anything, them having released a similar product and fixing countless issues before, should have taught them.
They should have learned from it and released Darktide in a state that is at least on par with where V2 is now.
Crafting locks being in the game, is inexcusable.
Imagine someone built a car, where the wheels fly off, constantly.
They accept that they made a mistake, they correct the issue and now the wheels do not fly off.
Then they build an other car, but again, the wheels fly off constantly.
Would you defend this stupid behavior?
Or would you expect them to have learned from past mistakes, and keep that learned information in mind when building the next product in order to prevent the same issue from happening again?
You don’t get me…
Red weapons were not here at the beginning. We don’t have red weapons in DT or a similar feature. They don’t want to remove the locks system.
Several here wants a perfect weapon. Such feature (equivalent to red weapons of VT2) will, in my opinion, come later.
However, from the answers I have got here there is 3 reasons behind the removal locks demand:
players that want perfect weapons… these one have just to wait. No point in asking a feature that cam lately in VT2 and say that DT is in a bad state… if you’re here and need a perfect weapon to get a better weapon, then the crafting system is not so bad…;
players that have difficulties to get an excellent weapon;
players that consider that the game is not rewarding their time.
My point was about the first part of players that ask about locks removal…
Again, someone please correct me if I get this wrong but, reds were in the game from launch.
What wasn’t was the ability to dismantle them for red dust to then upgrade any orange to red. THAT was not in, at launch, red items were.
You not seeing that someone didn’t explicitly say that reds were in at launch doesn’t mean that they weren’t.
@alsozara only said that crafting them wasn’t in. The deduction here is: reds were in the game but only as rare(er) drops which were exclusively drops. I.E reds where a thing since launch.
RED WEAPONS WERE IN VERMITINDE 2 AT LAUNCH. YOU COULD GET THEM FROM THE LOOP DROPS AT THE END OF THE MISSION.
A patch relatively early on added the ability to scrap red items for red dust; and then you could spend 5 red dust to upgrade an orange item to red. They also improved the drop rate of red items slightly.
I get wym though, ig in this context you would be able to change change 3 out of the four blessings/perks using crafting materials with the last one perma locked.
I suspect that they want to slowly give more freedom to players.
The 80% cap is one the points that makes me think of that.
As I said, I played VT2 20 hours… and from I have read, I was thinking that (see above, I asked that if they were here at beginning).
Thanks for the info.
However, as I said, I suspect that we will get an increase of the cap (actually 380 - 80%) and deliver something like red weapons. The question is when and what system they will introduce.
But, I don’t think that the fact this feature is not here is something that makes DT a bad game.
Wanting a new feature is totally legit by the way. My opinion is that this feature, addressing the demand of a way to get a perfect weapon, is not why the player base vanished, as this is an end game feature.
However, crafting system is something that is a problem for a new player. They started to address it with the last patch. There are, yet, things that need to be improved. But, they can do it without removing the locks (a sort of soft lock for a third slot can be an answer - example: red item could have one more slot that can be changed one time).
We already have close to perfect weapons… so not having a perfect weapon is not as terrible as it can sound when we read several comments.
Instead of this “modify 2 thinghs” bs they could have added another cuurency that you can only earn by doing full book runs and lets you “remove” locks.
Considering the fact that it took almost a year to get us shared currency, I’d say we can expect another crafting update and new classes in next year.
If Fat Shark won’t allow players to break the locks. Can we at least have it so we can choose what perk or blessing we get after we made the decision on our chosen perks/blessings?
For example if I have an item with a locked perk and blessing but they are Tier 3 (i.e. 20% unarmored, 8% specialist dmg, ) I am fine with keeping those locked at tier 3, if at least I can choose what perk/blessing I can have those be.
In this way, those crazy people that like to min/max they can still hunt for those items and get Tier 4s on both blessings and perks. And then on the other end it would be helping those who are casual players and can’t put in all the time.
If Fat Shark can’t do the option above . Can we have a way to upgrade the locked perks/blessings in some way or fashion via materials like Diamantine, Plasteel, or Ordo Ingots? Or even let us roll the item back into ‘white rarity’ so we can try upgrading it again?
I mean it’s very annoying to finally get a good item with the base stats you want, then only to have it upgraded into something you don’t want. NO ONE LIKES LOOKING AT THE ARMORY EVERY HOUR.
