The issue with horde clear

[Wahid]

I shouldn’t have written the post in the first place because it’s both pointless and unfair to other players, but since we’re at this crossroads now.

My frustration was really more about class design, although I expressed myself very poorly due to lack of sleep and other things. That’s not an excuse, though.

What I hope to see from the October update is that classes are no longer forced into specific roles.
For example, a flamethrower on my Veteran would be very fun, while a gun wielding psyker that boosts his bullets with the warp for various effects would be another cool thing. Kind of like Muerta in Dota 2.

I play Purgatus/Combat Blade on my Psyker in Auric-Damnation, so I have no problem being a horde clearer, but after playing the game for 900 hours now, I have some issues with the gameplay and one of them is definitely the pidgeon holing of classes.

My suggestion is actually to make the classes broader. Psykers should absolutely use warp, but they should not always have to use staffs, and Ogryn, for example, should also have the option of being a ranged fighter that plinks away and rarely goes into melee range.

Just expand the gameplay, because I am so sick of either being in the situation where no one picks anything for horde clearing, or you do not have a Veteran to take care of the shooting gallery chokepoints on the maps, which means the game slows down to a crawl.

This isn’t that common in Auric- Level games, but it happens, and when it happens; you’ll stand around for minutes, BB’ing one target at the time until you can move forward.

TLDR: Let every class have access to both Anti-Shooter and Horde clear weapons.

Flamer on Veteran, when?

[Ralendil]

@Wahid

My suggestion is actually to make the classes broader. Psykers should absolutely use warp, but they should not always have to use staffs, and Ogryn, for example, should also have the option of being a ranged fighter that plinks away and rarely goes into melee range.

Just expand the gameplay, because I am so sick of either being in the situation where no one picks anything for horde clearing, or you do not have a Veteran to take care of the shooting gallery chokepoints on the maps, which means the game slows down to a crawl.

Totally agree on this… we will see what the next update brings us in term of different gameplays. Can’t wait for the zealot that backstab and could use invisibility.
But, and this is a personal opinion, balancing weapons is part of this.

Obviously, if you use an illisi force sword, everything will be easier. Using such “handicap” (= a combat blade) and running Auric means you’re a real good player.
I think that there are several weapons too strong that should be a little nerfed. But there are also weapons too weak. Combat blade is one of them. I don’t think it needs a huge boost, but a small one definitively.

[Eisenfaust]

@Wahid

Let every class have access to both Anti-Shooter and Horde clear weapons.

Anti Horde
All humans: Devilsclaw, Antax V
Vet: Powersword, braced autoguns
Zealot: Heavy Sword, Eviscerator, braced autoguns, flamer
Psyker: All staffs except for lightning, illisi
Ogryn: basically any equipment… But especially bull butcher

Anti Shooter:
All humans: Lasguns, infanrtry/headhunter augtoguns
Ogryn: Heavy stubber

every class has access to anti horde and anti shooter armament - and as hordes are best slaughtered in melee I emphasised the dedicated class specific horde clearers…

[Heretical_Cactus]

@Wahid

What I hope to see from the October update is that classes are no longer forced into specific roles.
For example, a flamethrower on my Veteran would be very fun, while a gun wielding psyker that boosts his bullets with the warp for various effects would be another cool thing. Kind of like Muerta in Dota 2.

The weapon exclusivity are there for themes and flavour, and the Vet hardly need the Flamer currently.
As for the “gun wielding Psyker” you present it sound more like you want to have the Psyker be able to use the Warp instead of Ammo, which would defeat the intent of a gun on a Psyker (Both in game and in lore, again, theme).

@Wahid

My suggestion is actually to make the classes broader. Psykers should absolutely use warp, but they should not always have to use staffs, and Ogryn, for example, should also have the option of being a ranged fighter that plinks away and rarely goes into melee range.

Psyker atm have at max 4 source of Warp based damage (Melee; Ranged; Blitz and Ability), there isn’t really any way to increase it further and I don’t see what you want more.
As for Ogryn, we know it’s getting a Gunlugger ability, so he most likely will be primary ranged based.

@Wahid

Just expand the gameplay, because I am so sick of either being in the situation where no one picks anything for horde clearing, or you do not have a Veteran to take care of the shooting gallery chokepoints on the maps, which means the game slows down to a crawl.

Even if you expand the gameplay options you still will fall on such cases, like in VT2 when sometime you spawn in a mission while being with a WP, a GK and a Slayer, so you end up being the only one with a ranged ability.

@Wahid

you’ll stand around for minutes, BB’ing one target at the time until you can move forward.

Lucky you we know that the Psyker is getting a horde focused blitz with the Psychic Shards

[Wahid]

Yeah, my suggestion might have been a bit outlandish, true.

Regarding lore, I don’t really care to be honest. For me gameplay always have to come first. This or that isn’t in the “LORE” has always been a very bad way to excuse why something can’t be in a game especially, since the games that used to adhere religiously to the lore have changed their lore over time in order to broaden it’s gameplay options and offerings.

This is not tabletop WH40k and it’s not like WH40k lore (not talking world building) is the most sensible thing there is to begin with.

I’m not saying that my suggestion is what should be done, it might have been a terrible suggestion, I just don’t agree on that “lore” should take the centerpiece of a game that is not a RPG and is all about the moment-to-moment gameplay.

Noone complains about that you can snipe people through the walls in Counter Strike or that you can eat trees to regenerate health points in Dota 2. The latter not having anything to do with the lore of Dota 2, but is a part of the gameplay to help people be able to stay in laning.

Noone complains about MMORPG bosses (ok some do) having; cleave attack, floor is lava attack, group up attack, spread out attack, shoot out balls that kills you if you touch them, tank switch attack, minion phase; over and over. There is no lore to do those mechanics, it’s simply gameplay to make the encounters challenging and interesting.

Talking lore; and excuse me if I am stupid, talking lore; how is the Pox Hound able to pin down an Ogryn to the mat and why isn’t there a Daemon being summoned to attack the party when Psyker’s blow up?

Comics; How is Batman able to outsmart and survive Superman, Darkseid and other cosmic level entities and somehow have an answer for every single problem prepared in his utility belt?

Gameplay should always come first in my book!

What gameplay should consist of is debatable, and I’ve no problem admitting I’m wrong, but using LORE as a reason why you can’t do something in a video game is a very limited view of things.

[Eisenfaust]

@Wahid

Regarding lore, I don’t really care to be honest.

Valid opinion yet I fully disagree. If the designers want to ignore lore they shouldn’t be using existing IPs. Create their own fantasy/Sci-fi universe and there they can do anything they want. If they choose as a setting a beloved world I’m invested in I expect them to treat the source material with respect - then I want to be immersed in that world. I play DT mainly as a 40k game and secondarily as a gameplay challenge.
Don’t get me wrong - there are always instances where lore has to be bent a little for the sake of gameplay (4 mortal humans killing 1000+ heritics with mere steel axes… yeah…) but there is a difference betwenn slight bending and not giving a kark.

Btw in my opinion for the most part FS did an outstanding job creating a grim dark 40k world - only sore thing for me right now that mundane steel axes vastly outperform chain and power weaopons, but in most part it’s pretty spot on - if they started to ignore lore I’d be out.