Iromhelm at least have one unique and good property, where you can cleave trough chaff with power attack, and hit elite with full power that was hiding in the horde.
But yeah, generally thammers ain’t great. Maybe not unplayable broken, but very much behind other weapons.
Come to think about it, maybe it is unfixable really. If you look at the meta melee weapons, all those have high mobility, dagger the best weapon, has the best mobility. Playing on AMaelstroms, really promotes agility, given that bad positioning can kill you in 1.5 second. Hammer will never be trully mobile, thus probably will never be good pick on highest difficulty.
True, hammers aren’t in a good place but they are not unplayable either, they are absolutely behind in terms of survivability and general damage to non boss enemies compared to other weapons (knife/CA) but they still are very enjoyable weapons and can absolutely go on auric maelstrom with no problem, they are literally my favorite weapon in the game.
With pre nerf Invocation of Death it was soo good to gain one charge instantly, especially using the ironhelm.
Bloodthirsty could be amazing to play with and i don’t think it could be that OP, apart from that replacing Thrust, Headtaker or Slaughterer isn’t an easy decision. Shred would work too, but I don’t think it could be that useful.
TH can keep the self-stun as that gives it identity and a risk-reward factor.
In exchange, without Thrust IV, it needs to consistently one-tap Crushers with a charged heavy headshot on Damnation. I would also advise giving Crucis the swap to an overhead swing upon charging the attack, regardless of if it’s heavy or light, to make it fit its niche compared to the Ironhelm without invalidating said Ironhelm.
With Thrust III or IV, it should one-tap Crushers with anything. And non-ogryns should die to a charged light.
It’s a melee weapon with self-stun in a game where mobility is king. The risk is huge so the reward should be equally so.
One weapon could be sligtly better than another and that shouldn’t be that big of a problem (Agripinaa Mk VIII Braced Autogun), even in the same “family” of the weapon, the real problem is when a weapon in specific is far beyond being slightly better from the rest of options, for example knife, CA with BM, columnus mk5, plasma gun.
The issue is pretty straight forward. There are meta weapons that stand out from the pack, then there’s the pack, and then there are laggards. The laggard weapons, I’ll say, are weapons that entail extra challenges without due payoffs. IMO the thunderhammers are just between the pack and laggard weapons. You can account for their challenge for the most part.
Unfortunately, this is why martyrdom is overrated on hammer builds. It leans too much into potential top activated damage vs a single target, when the hammer already had that in spades. It’s weakness has to do with being forced into your standard attack profile, for fear of stun, and 25% crit chance or 15% attack speed and 15% damage is just better most of the time with the cleave distribution of the hammer.
I disagree about your sentence, but not with you.
The agri is not better than others. Sure it does more damages, but others have their place. Example: graia brauto is the best with onslaught.
So when I say “And not seeing one better than one other” I mean by that that no weapons should be the best choice… or we run into the meta problem (all using the meta to be able to simply play).
This means that all weapons should be used and be able to be used and still you could “compete” with other weapons.
Unfortunately, TH has a problem, and picking this weapon means that you won’t be able to be as efficient as your teammates.
Hammers really need some damage especially vs armored enemies. The special on mk2 with all the drawbacks should honestly kill crushers with ease, but for some stupid reason you need quite a lot of blessing interactions and extra power to even get that.
Hammers also seem to have hilariously bad damage fall off (like 2-3 targets only take damage) which honestly just seems to be a relic from vermintide 2 balancing than anything.
idk you can definitely make both of the weapons work in the current game and there are still some stupidly hilarious interactions with 1 shotting demonhosts etc but i would trade those boss dps moments for more consistent elite clear any day.
You should look at the breakpoint calculator before you make such claims. The reason it’s horde clear is mid is because it’s attack speed is slow. TH did get buffed heavies in patch 13 I think but the activated attacks never got more damage against armor when hp numbers went up.
Weapons having niches and well defined strengths and weaknesses is good design generally, actually.
T Hammer doesn’t need more horde clear, in fact I’ll extremely upset if they give it that. It just needs way better elite breakpoints. Unpowered attacks having less 4ss single target damage would also be appreciated but then we good.
The attack speed is completely fine, i totally just misremembered the cleaving profile. I still don’t think the damage is particularly impressive but meh i give it that it had more cleave than i remembered.
It probably doesn’t but it actually has to hit hard against single targets. And by hard i mean HARD.
In a world where even shovels can seemingly one shot elites i would expect lower mobility less defensible weapon to do bit more than just that.
That’s the opposite of what I said. I want the unpowered profile to be less bad at single target. AKA I want them to be better, but just in single target damage not in damage cleave.
Something as squishy as a shotgunner has no business taking that many unpowered attacks to kill.
I doubt anyone disagrees with that. IMO crucis should one head shot crushers with basically nothing but good stat rolls and just basic boosts from Zealot tree you could reasonably be expected to have on any build.
Thrust should be a boss damage booster or something to help your starting heavy into a dense horde, not a base requirement for the weapon to function.
Light powered attacks should one head shot squishy elites with zero boosts and one head shot ragers with minimal boosts.
Assuming we’re on the same page with all of that yes?
Hammers are sh-t, without a doubt.
If you want to see how they SHOULD look go watch Space Marine 2 thunderhammer gameplay.
Powered TH should delete the thing you hit and everything around it.
And basic unpowered TH numbers are too low, its MUCH worse THH from Vermintide.
Slayer bardin THH (± dmg/attack speed wise comparable to zealot) absolutely DELETES anything in front of him.
Meanwhile knife ranged veteran build is better than thunderhammer zealot
