I’m all for scoreboards: ofc they are not perfect and might provoke some toxic behaviour but they are absolutely necessary. Just make them better than that V1-2’s - they are horrible.
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So much arguing over something so simple. Give players their run statistics once they are back in the mission hub. By the time you are back to the mission hub, you have either chosen to disband or regroup. If you have chosen to disband–great–now nobody can be toxic to you about your stats. If you’ve chosen to collectively regroup, then I imagine that you’ve chosen to do so because you enjoyed the people you just ran with, and you probably aren’t going to bug them about their run stats.
Is there still technically the opportunity for people to regroup AND THEN harass someone of the post game stats? There sure is; but if someone is truly so concerned about having their feelings hurt over the post game statistics, they can simply always disband after a run.
This solution provides both sides of the argument with what they want. Thin skinners can avoid any possibility of scoreboard toxicity, and green circle junkies can get their conceited dopamine hit.
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I want a scoreboard because I play with friends and we like to laugh and joke at the ridiculously high numbers we sometimes see someone got, or the ridiculously low numbers they got. Having it taken out hurts our enjoyment of the game.
It’d be nice to see a scoreboard to track enemy kills, damage dealt, ammo used etc but also to stacks/debuffs activated. Give a bit of a clearer picture of how your gear impacted your ability to clear the game area of enemies or to help your team. Damage dealt to the various bosses and by what weapon & class would help for newer players to know what does and does not work. This is a game with lots of variables, people with certain ways of processing information/thinking like seeing this stuff.
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ill be honest game has bigger problems then lack of score board , if we get private lobbies and reworked inventory(stats screen currently is very obscure and unusuable) then id happy let it go
as on end of the game stats while are nice id live without it , private lobbies and “readable weapon stats” is something i cant
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I just wanna see me and my friends scores so we can compete with each other. Idc about the randoms.
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Scoreboard lets me know if I was actually contributing by:
Dealing damage
Killing specials/elite
This is important because none of the numbers are given in game so this is the only way to know if you are doing better from one game to the other.
Make it a personal scoreboard.
You see your stats compared to all player’s total and that is it.
If you’re playing with friends, you can compare outloud.
If you’re playing with randos, no toxicity.
You also get some personal feedback that can allow you to improve. Best metric in VT2 is Damage Taken, and the one that made me improve at the game the most. Scoreboards are useful, green circles aren’t.
But if it’s personal and you don’t have any comparison point it’s pointless.
One match can vary to another quite greatly.
If you want to remove the toxicity, remove the green circles.
There. Done.
Damage dealt : 13 000 / 30 000 (43%) or Damage dealt : 13 000 / 85 000 (15%) gives you enough information I guess
I’m playing for 2 days without scoreboard:
mission is over successfully - fine, I guess?
mission is failed - not fine, I guess?
Nah, scoreboard is a must.
Just don’t make it into another screen I have to look at instead of starting another map.
IDK if it’s technically possible but introduce it into the loading screen: the guys are in raptor and you could look at their performances in the background.
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“Most of the arguments given by OP are pretty asinine, basically suggesting perfect scientific rigour is needed to get any feedback at all about how your build is performing, which just isn’t my experience at all in over 1000 hours of V2.”
I agree, this post is just an “IAMVERYSMART” bad take.
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At least one who understands, if you post this on steam they tear you up. Just because they are unable to admit the truth. They only want the scoreboard for competition and so they can point the finger at people. and be able to say “you were bad, we hate you” :-/
A score card isn’t going to do a damn thing about personal performance, and even playing with people in Vermintide 2 they were so focused on all the other green circles that they pretty much ignored the one stat that actually mattered, damage taken. The rest of them didn’t matter. Doesn’t matter for improvement how many specials you killed, how many headshots you got, how much damage you did to a boss, etc.
The toxicity isn’t about the normal form of toxicity, where someone abused someone for ‘not being good enough’, it was about the mentality that a scorecard encourages, which was what we call ‘green circle chasers’ in V2.
Even with the more teamwork orientated scorecard, it’s still going to be encouraging players to be the one on top.
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Thing is the scoreboard, at least the VT2 scoreboard, doesn’t tell you how well someone performed.
The Shield Ogryn who had his shield up tanking volley fire after volley fire of las while the Veteran behind him was busy dumping shots into the horde that the Zealot was already controlling and kiting instead of shooting the Volley gunners is going to get less green circles than the Veteran
We had similar issues with Ironbreakers in VT2, where they perform a very important role in the team, but often had really low scores because they aren’t meant to be dealing lots of damage.
It also doesn’t tell you why you lost. A Veteran in the team that got overwhelmed by a sniper, trapper and bomber while they were busy shooting at the Bulwark that was safely being occupied and kited is going to look at the scorescreen and go, “hey I killed more specials and did more damage than the Zealot who was busy kiting around in the frontline, so clearly its the Zealot that is the problem.” while completely disregarding the fact that the team was relying on him to deal with the threats at range that they could not effectively reach.
In this case imho, the lack of a scoreboard is better than a bad scoreboard, since it doesn’t give an easy scapegoat and forces you to actually sit down and think about why you lost (assuming you actually want to get better). Of course a good means of demonstrating performance would be the best circumstance, and the way imho would be some kind of saved replay mechanic with informative statistics play by play.
Make it so the people who want to use the scoreboard/playback for improving their play get the information in a manner that is most useful to them (rather than meaningless and misleading numbers).
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What role is that? I used to get circles on IB all the time.
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The only argument against a scoreboard that ever gave me pause was “Maybe not focusing on stats will make people play better as a team”
And then I thought “Well why should I be punished for other people being selfish? And what makes anyone think they can program out selfish behaviour without gutting the game?”
I really like having a scoreboard, because I like the friendly competition aspect to a co-op game. It’s actually a big part of it. But I also really like good natured team play where you care about doing the right thing for the team.
You’ll never be able to write a piece of code that makes someone not play selfishly. They will still charge off ahead alone to hog kills or do whatever other nonsense. It happens less and less as you play harder difficulties.
How good the metrics are at assessing build quality or player skill or anything else is largely a red herring. It has some use, but not much. It’s about feeling good seeing that you contributed by killing a lot of stuff or reviving a lot of your buddies, and being recognised for that. As a sharpshooter, I’d like to see how many specials I killed and be able to think “Yeah, I really did my job on that mission! Nice!”.
That little dopamine hit at the end of a mission is a really nice touch and I miss it.
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assinine - extremely stupid or foolish.
so you completely fail to understand the point, yoou have to missrepresent what i said you then offer no evidence or logic to back up your position, and mine was an assanine bad take. okies.
i didnt say you needed perfect scientific rigour, i said the variance was too big for it to be any more relaible than just paying attention .
how ami wrong?
i said your measuring performance not capacity what this means is you can make the biggest improvement by upping your movement speed as your actually measuring whose first
how am i wrong?
i said as you get better the numbers get lower not higher. your faster better you kill less
how am i wrong?
fully agreed and ill be the first to admit i dont think the scoreboard is close to the biggest factor in this.
the point i make is it is a competitive score board, it just measures how much of the resource (kills) you managed to get in a zero sum ie your against your team if you kill a special they can not, its a deathmatch scoreboard just dumped into a co op game. it is going to be an incentive for people to play to the test.
no matter how little it affects you the only incentive it does provide is in that direction.
the point i make is it is a competitive score board, it just measures how much of the resource (kills) … no matter how little it affects you the only incentive it does provide is in that direction.
I agree and that’s a fair point, I just think it’s ultimately got to be down to the player to behave well, if you try to enforce it at the feature level you kneecap the game the more you try it.
I will say though, I would love to see a scoreboard with more stats on it that have nothing to do with kills. They’re either defensive or support related stats that are just about how you helped your team, either directly or by conserving health and ammunition. Some rough examples to give an idea:
- Ratio of damage received on Toughness vs Health
- Melee hits blocked
- Attacks dodged
- Accuracy (%)
- Team HP healed by medpacks
- Team ammunition restocked by ammo packs (by % due to weapon capacity differences)
- Revives
- Resources pinged and not taken (ammo, meds, nades)
- Ammo & Grenades pickups taken (only applies to loose loot in the world - small/big ammo, nades)
- Friendly fire damage dealt (lower better obvs)
What I’m going for is that you could change the emphasis of these stats away from just kill counts. Don’t remove any of the skill stats we saw in VT2, just add more team-focused ones.
That way if you play selfishly then yeah, you might get a few green rings for kills and special kills, but other players who worked with their team will look better.
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