nah more like you want a street sign with the wrong name of the street implying that it helps you know where you are, even tho its misleading
It is a fun tool, at least for some. I can freely admit that. But useful? People throw that word in with words like “so I can get better”, because people feel that an argument with more than one point (fun) is better. There is no need to stretch the truth.
I think it would be better if people just stuck to the truth and admitted that the scoreboard is mainly there for an ego boost for skilled players. It is a motive just like any other and I think there is inherently nothing wrong with it. Skilled individuals often do carry the team and one cold argue that the green rings are a just reward for their ‘work’ (especially if they no longer need more loot).
My main issue is about the incentive it creates for (less skilled) players. The subtle attitude change that happens when PVP elements are introduced to a PVE environment. It does not kill the game or eliminate team play, but I feel that it makes the experience less… whole. There is less ‘we’ and more ‘I’.
Of course. You most likely fit the category of vets who carry teams and ‘honestly earn’ their green rings. Even so, you do admit that being recognized by the board is an incentive to snipe and revive rapidly, so you could experience being the ‘true’ victor among your team. In the end, while the team technically won together, you can be justified to feel that ‘you’ ultimately won and the team was there to witness it. It is very hard to admit the subtle negative affect that attitude can have on a team-based game, when you personally feel the experience was fully justified.
If there is no board, I believe people’s motives would lean more towards the team. I am not talking about drastic changes in player behavior. I am talking about slight difference in attitude that can improve the team-aspect of the player experience, when there is less unnecessary competition within the team.
Losing access to performance record does somewhat hurt the experience in its own right, but I do believe the benefits of reduced internal competition outweighs the negatives of a lost board.
Then again, one could argue it disincentivizes people from “giving their best” when there is no competition. That could be countered by arguing, that most people are generous by nature and do wish to help the team the best they can in a game they enjoy. The argument is endless…
1 Like
your proper reason is that it increases the amount of seratonin my brain releases at the end of a successful run if I do good and it has no impact on the end of a successful run if I don’t get any because we still won
1 Like
I wont accuse you, you openly stated that you used the scoreboard for validation and that is perfectly fine. I told the other guy as well but he doesnt want to admit it.
The reason why i said that he should asked for detailed informations is because they are actually helping and a great asset to the game to properly build your character. But instead he is here wanting a pointless scoreboard that doesnt do anything else than giving validation.
Its about him using weak excuses instead of admitting the obvious.
1 Like
maybe he’s not asking for detailed information because nearly everyone wants more detailed information, and many other people have made other threads asking for it already.
3 Likes
Same goes for scoreboards though. In fact, scoreboards are more of a topic than detailed informations, not only here but also on the Steam forum and its always the same discussion with people who want it by using weak excuses that it actually helps instead of admitting that they want it for validation or competition.
1 Like
at this point its obvious there are no more productive arguments being made and we resorted to accusations.
both sides made their points, and compromises were suggested.
and its obvious a consensus won’t be reached
maybe its better to close the discussion…
its upon fatshark to evaluate the situation and make the call i suppose
1 Like
Instead of a scoreboard, perhaps a running total that you can access while in your run would be better than a final tally. Perhaps using the TAB button or configured hotkey to show your current stats. This would be much more valuable than a number at the end, especially for people who truly care about min/max and increasing their own skill in specific fields.
There being more threads on scoreboards is natural given it’s a more controversial topic, wanting a more detailed breakdown of weapon stats, enemy properties and talents is essentially a ubiquitous stance in the community that pops up again and again amongst other people’s, and my own(i think?), writeups on their feelings on the beta.
Other reasons for a scoreboard do indeed exist(tracking health loss, damage dealt to monsters for evaluating monster fight contribution, friendly bosting amongst playgroups) and you have either dismissed them unfairly or ignored them, and I’m not going to try and engage you on them because I find talking to you frustrating and don’t care if you’re wrong or not.
3 Likes
First off, You are making a big, BIG assumption about me and my character.
Just because you believe that is what is being said, doesnt make it true. And just because you believe all my “reasons” are just excuses for me wanting to feel validated, also doesnt make it true.
So, i will keep my standpoint of wanting to keep the scoreboard, and engage with people that actually want to have a legitimate discussion.
I can see this standpoint. And just like you say later…
Your also correct. And yes, one could argue, as you have, that removing the scoreboard could reduce internal competition.
The key word there is ‘could’ reduce. The fact remains we dont know wether having the board would decrease the overall player bases enjoyment but push more cohesion, and people would work together better.
Its a stat that cant be quantified. While games like overwartch lack a scoreboard but have a notoriously toxic community, but Deep Rock Galactic has a scoreboard and is one of the least toxic communities.
Removing it would likely result in a net negative gain more than anything. While we can argue public matches and what happens there. We cannot ignore the friendly competition something like the scoreboard does for people that play together and know each other.
Friendly competition is one of the greatest bonding tools we as humans have. Its builds trust, friendship, and a desire for improvement out of yourself and peers.
Your last statement i do agree with, it is nearly an endless debate. I sit firmly on the side of the positive comradery that occurs with a scoreboard far outweighs any green circle chasers.
5 Likes
I suppose that is true. If only we could quantify if on average competition is more beneficial than cohesion for the overall player experience across the entire player-base, we could come to a conclusion.
I began the debate quite against the board, since I have always felt it hurts enjoyment more than it benefits it. Now that I have considered both sides of the argument a bit more… I am no longer sure. Maybe the board’s negative effects are just amplified in my mind.
If more people are for boards then my original view seems to be in the minority. Democratic choice would be to add the board back, even if I remain a bit iffy about it.
Yeah. I think I am going to be cool with the result either way, board or no. What I am playing the game for is the combat, and that is going to rock whether the team wins or loses. Some teams are going to shine and some will suck. I am just going to accept that as the nature of the game and focus on the fun.
3 Likes
I couldn’t agree more. I admit, i would be disappointed if there was no scoreboard. But that wont stop me from picking up my trusty lasgun, and diving into the thick of it.
Ultimately the scoreboard seems to have a wide range of personal views related to it. Perhaps having a way to only see your stats, or only see others stats if your friends with them. That might do both the things we want, keep that friendly competition, but also push better cohesion among randoms.
Either way its endless and farshark is gonna decide. But ill march into the hive alongside you wether theres a scoreboard at the end or not.
2 Likes
This is getting quite heated.
My objections to the scoreboard itself are that it is an enormous brush stroke of ultimately vague information given as appearingly tight numerical data and actually is simply transferring arbitrary icode that is somehow being taken as an indication of… anything.
Every single thing on the scoreboard is completely skewed by the players build, abilities, weapons inbuilt crit chances, trinkets and ult’s that the metrics given displayed as some kind of comparison are absolute hogwash.
Elite kills? IB only got 19 this run. WS got 59 and 22 special kills by…pressing F, killing 6 plague rats and a Gutter Runner hiding behind a shed in the distance having a smoke. IB arguably had to display more skill than WS to get their kills and so skill is absolutely not reflected in this metric.
Damage Taken is distorted wildly if a player gets downed, as the health pool is boosted while your health is red. It is possible a player can therefore take more damage getting stabbed up by a runner for 2 seconds than another player throughout the rest of the run getting chip-hit left right and centre… This metric is also wildly distorted by Zealots deiberately getting thumped, Gromril Armour and so on. Not useful as information to judge your performance on.
Each metric can be dismantled this way and although I’m not entirely against a scoresheet at the end, the current iteration of the scoreboard must go as it is wildly innacurate as a measure of performance during the run. In it’s current state it is not a useful tool for players to use to improve.
As for toxicity, it’s a little softer than the traditional sense of homophobic, rascist nasty comments. It’s the elf main players who charge ahead, little green outline in the distance, javelins flying into everything including the back of Krubers head to get MaH GREEN CIRCLES! The scoreboard leeches into the game for some people and harms the run for 3 players.
I’ve been slowly understanding more why people want A scoreboard, but as it stands now THE scoreboard must go.
2 Likes
So its not that you dont want a scoreboard. You want a different version of it that shows different things? Correct if i am wrong, but thats is what i got from your comment.
I admit i am unimaginative when it comes to coming up with game mechanics. I just know how to work with whats allowed. Things like kills, special kills, damage done and so forth seem like things worth seeing. Maybe kills removed, and just like damage total stats, rounds fired vs shots landed. Any ideas of things to display that could make it better i am all for.
2 Likes
I still struggle to find a way to fully get behind a scoreboard as setting up players in competition with each other in a co-op game feels counter productive to me.
IF there is to be a scoreboard, it should maybe have the same effect as a ‘Ghost car’ In a racing game - I don’t mean have a ghost in game, just the effect of comparing yourself to your own best run.
You could have your own scoreboard that only displays your current run vs your personal best for each metric with that class.
Damage Taken, when displayed as ~your current run vs personal best playing with Ogryn~ would be infinitely more valuable for a players own development than comparisons between classes with disparate weapons and so on.
Players who suggest a wide open comparison of everything across everyone lose me because it’s just too much of a vague wide sweep and it’s hard not to think ‘you’re only after the circles’
So a scoreboard against yourself would get my support, yes.
2 Likes
Caduseus has the same view. I also agree that i have seen green circle chasers myself, and been endlessly frustrated by them.
I would like to see the scoreboard for the friendly competition it inspires out of me and my friends list.
If its perceived as a problem (which i dont think the scoreboard is inherently THE problem. Green circle chasers will find another reason to not be team players.) The best course is allow me and my friends be able to compare our performaces. Or show a lifetime stat pool of everything, show total, and then an average per game. But only if the scoreboard is deemed a problem.
Or keep the scoreboard as is. Either way works, but i do know that friendly competition among friends you make while playing is a great bonding tool.
All in all, i can see your point, just like Caduseus made good points. I think we can agree we do view the board differently, but wether it leaves or stays wont affect our playing of the game. One way or another, Heretics must be purged.
2 Likes
It might be something as simple as a “toggle scoreboard” in the options. Although I’m no coder so whether it’s simple or not is another matter.
1 Like
Agree. I think most people can do just that. As I’ve said in other threads, my buddy and me main Ironbreaker while I do GK/Foot Knight… we often jest at the end of a match why the IB took near nothing… those dang talents!
He’ll be in discord like hey why’d you take so much dmg? Cause I’m not an IB and you dang well know it! lol.
1 Like
I really, really want a scoreboard even if it is only personally viewable. I use it as a tool to see my own performance and identify where I need to improve.
2 Likes
To be honest scoreboards are not that important. But on the other hand I don’t think scoreboard toxicity is enough of an issue to justify the removal: besides the “green circle chasing” which I think it’s symptom of a larger problem, I’ve never encountered a problem with it. So they might as well show some kind of info.
If they don’t that’s fine, but the reason provided is lacking IMO.
2 Likes