On the forums there have been lots of talks about how Darktide is a step backwards in years of quality of life changes that Vermintide 2 received. I work in game dev and I can tell you exactly what happened.
On the release of Vemintide 2, the bulk of fatshark’s team split off and began work on Darktide, while a smaller section of the studio kept working on Vermintide 2. This is where the separation began. Knowing how games are made, The systems that Darktide was made and expanded from on was likely the release version of Vermintide 2, not the one that had 4 years of quality of life put into it. The two teams were separate, changes made to Vermintide 2 that were for the better were not brought over to Darktide and thats why Darktide feels like it was steps backwards, it wasnt, it was that those changes were never communicated because they were busy with making the rest of the game and the systems we see instead of smaller QoL changes. They just didnt have the time to go over to the team that was continuing Vermintide and ask them what changes they’ve made so they can implement them into Darktide, it sadly doesnt work that smoothly in game dev at large studios.
Telling someone to avoid getting hit works fine when you are talking to a Veteran or a Psyker who can function well in the backline. But its a lot harder for Zealot and Ogryn who will often be in the middle of melee, while also getting shot at by gunners. The roles are fundamentally different and, shockingly enough, the classes wading into melee and gunfire are a lot more likely to get hit.
It happened in Vermintide to V2, it’s happened from V2 to DT. That’s why I always joke that if a feature only got added after a year or so of a game’s release, it won’t be in the next game at launch; wait 3-4 years for it.
Although saying that, something big must have happened for them to have to not only have to trash their original character customisation system (and copy and paste in V2’s system) but also leave their core progression systems significantly half-baked (especially crafting) at launch.
i have to reply here because of things i have experienced or seen,
chip damage doesnt seem to work with the game, any hit to health will stun you, whats the point of an over shield if you cant use it?
everyone here has had instances where
lets say your a 150hp character(curios what ever)
a Pox spawns behind you (this happens a lot)
the pox hits for 15ish damage (you lose 10% of your health)
you turn and kill the pox (your now not fighting the hoard that was infront of you)
with your back turned you get hit again another Pox that caught up (you’ve lost 20% health)
this will very quickly kill you,
and if you dont turn to kill the pox it gets another hit in,
you could say well just dodge but anyone who has played rank 3-4-5 missions know you cant dodge everything, and theirs a delay where something will eventually connect.
i feel that chip damage wont work in Darktide.
i would sooner have all the creatures that do Corruption damage do double Corruption before id agree to Chip Damage. in this case i choose fun over 1 Zealot build that may be too strong.
I hope that at this point that the only thing this system does is it’s chipping away potential players from the game. This toughness crap is more like a curse than help in melee. You get stunlocked because of toughness, you still get hit through it and on top of that both the dodges and stamina regen we’re nerfed hard. The stamina doesn’t even regenerate when dodging which is a CRUCIAL part of the melee system they have been embracing so hard.
There is a saying goes “If it’s not broke, don’t fix it” and apparently Fatshark has taken it by heart to do exactly the opposite of that while absolutely forgetting everything they learned in the past decade when creating Vermintide. It’s almost unreal. It kills me to see the game in this state because the devs are hurt that we are doing fine in the game and so they are nerfing everything to the ground to create more artificial challenges/roadblocks even at the cost of fun and excitement of the player.
@GiardiaGuardian Regarding other builds that could get pretty ridiculous with chip completely removed, there is also the weapon blessing that restores toughness when cleaving X enemies. I’m not quite clear on which weapons are able to roll it, but that + melee kills + regen feats should be enough to full restore roughness like every 4-6 swings or so, less if fighting in coherency range. That’s the sort of stuff I’d be concerned about if chip was removed altogether.
And pointing out again that I am not against some changes to the system to make it more forgiving. I am just not convinced removing it entirely is the right call.
Well compared to Vermintide in this game your toughness goes up and down all the time from 100 to 0 and from 0 to 100. That’s because there is a new ranged threat involved and you have to account for that. If you have no toughness against ranged you get stunlocked and shot to death.
It’s only natural that if we get the normal shield where the damage doesn’t leak through it some of the perks around it may need to be altered to match the new changes made to the system.
funny enough, pysker actually has the best toughness regen in the game but everyone sleeps on it.
He regens 10% toughness of warp kill, meaning anything that does warp damage taht kills gives him 10% toughness. Would you like to guess what kills with his staff count as?
I was wondering if it worked this way lol. The flamethrower hand must be nutty against the horde with that perk. Meanwhile Veteran Sharpshooters have Zealots pointing fingers at them for toughness regeneration where we regenerate 10% toughness for each headshot kill. Unless you’re using a lasgun this ain’t worth the struggle and most of the time it’s best that you just hop into melee to regain some lol.
I was wondering the same thing until i just said screw it and took it for a test drive. THat talent works on
Brain burst, Force sword alt attack, soul blaze damage, and any damage caused by the staves, be it primary or alt fire. The draw back to that is, you really only get reliable generation from your staff which in melee does not help much.
I need to hop on Psyker after the game is released and I’m done testing all the stuff I’m primarily interested in. He sounds like a blast and I’m sure it’s gonna be even a bigger blast once Fatshark figures out all the problems we talk about here.
He is a very very fun class to play up to and including malice but after malice he falls off hard, and you feel more like a second wheel then you do a member of the team.
The best role you fill in heresy and damnation is to bring your lightening staff and use it to just stunlock all the elites that you come across.
He though one of the most boring classes to play i will say that, because he is not marketed correctly. Everything tries to sell him as a elite killer but he is the opposite, he is THE premo horde clear character, but that game play entails you just constantly using your staves alt fire and thats it.
Force sword is a blast though, Im trying to get more block cost reduction curios because i think i can made a stupid tank build on him that has around 50% block cost reduction.
Except for the part where that happened, they told us that happened, then about last year they told us they pulled the team off V2 as well to finish DT(hence the absolute drought of V2 content). Meaning those teams were now mixing again for several months, which gives them no excuse to have ignored those team members valued changes to V2. What’s the justification there? “Oh sorry, we just don’t care about the veteran V2 team’s implementation of mechanics”???
The hasty change from CBT to POB chip feels like something someone suggested as a joke and they implemented in a day, with how many systems it either antagonizes or outright fails to mesh with.
Personally? my money is no tencent had a hand in it, all of the mechanics ofthe game scream “Hey play this game more to get that chance at that thing you need/want.”
Just came here and made this account to specifically agree with this thread.
Toughness needs to absorb all damage before health damage is applied. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise. We can see this was intended design to begin with, as there are many special on-screen effects for breaking the toughness.
Hilariously it is now applied whenever you receive any non-ranged damage, because they all break through toughness.
For people saying that it would make the game too easy I have one counter-argument:
Are you playing and clearing Heresy and Damnation on the regular? If the answer is no, you have no right to claim “ez gg”. That’s disingenious.
Of course the game will feel trivial on Malice eventually, it’s the middling difficulty clearable by good level 12 players. It’s not mean to be endgame.
It’s what Champion was for Vermintide 2, just this time they made the rewards for clearing the casual difficulty a little more rewarding so casual players don’t get left behind too much (which is based).
Anyway, I’d like my Zealot to feel like a proper Zealot and not constantly have my eyes glued to my HP bar despite clearly playing the class to it’s intended purpose.
Everybody who defends chip on any ground is objectively wrong and I know what the word objectively means
Reasons
Game LIES to you about toughness and getting stunned ONLY when you dont have toughness
Zealot and Ogryn were DESIGNED to be at their safest in melee, that is where a good player can dance around AND USE HIS TOUGHNESS as a resource to be SPENT to land hits instead of blocking or dodging.
Now players are punished for getting hit 4 times instead of once
A. toughness hit B. Health hit C. Stunned out of attack D.because of the stun and the chain is f*cked.
Veterans with 200 toughness can spend that toughness for a hit or two from trash mobs at 4+ to land that shot on a special which would wipe the party.
The game WAS NOT designed around chip damage period
P.S. low hp toughness dancing zealot build does NOT exist with chip damage, effectevily removing 2 zealot talents from the pool
fun design right