toughness change is cool but I want my GOT DANG melee improvements
Except itâs not working. 100% toughness should be 100% damage reduction, but you still get chipped.
I suspect they calculate damage reduction after taking the hit to toughness, meaning youâre never really at 100%âŚ
Either that or their code is spaghettied.
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Itâs glitched, they put it in the âknown issuesâ thing on the patch notes.
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No itâs a known issue in the patch notes. Having more than 100 max toughness throws out the calculation somehow, so if youâre a Zealot, unequip your toughness curios for now.
Annoying that itâs bugged on release, but once fixed I think they made 100% the right call. Honestly as it is I suspect many people will be getting bored of damnation in a month or two, so glad they didnât cave and just get rid of chip altogether.
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Even as a Psyker with no toughness curio, I take chip damage when at full toughness. Health went from 150 to 148 just now.
Edit : Iâm a moron. I have +10% toughness curio -_-
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What is Psykerâs base toughness? If 100 you should bug report, since that would suggest itâs bugged beyond the known issue.
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I just really wish that Fatshark would stop trying all of this player hostile design changes from what the tutorial and closed betaâs had. In that toughness blocks the health damage you take until it breaks. It worked fine, enemies damage and the way objectives work (Getting knocked out of interactions when taking health damage) was balanced around it.
For some reason Fatshark keeps on trying to change how this system works and make it more complicated and harder for players to understand. I appreciate them trying to make the mechanics have more depth to them, but all of these changes to the toughness system and its chip damage are just annoying people and me and my friend group who were playing through the closed betaâs have actually been less inclined to want to play the game now cause we just get frustrated whenever we have to hack or carry objectives and are getting interrupted by a tap from an enemy.
TLDR: Fatshark, you had a good thing going with the toughness system back when it was a simple shield to protect players health. Stop trying to overcomplicate it. Itâs no doubt consuming a bunch of time trying to fiddle with fixes and such for it and taking away from time that could be spent elsewhere so just, put it back to the simple method thatâs shown in the tutorial. Please.
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while youâre at it quit fiddling with the melee and just copy and paste VT2âs systems
That and the entire Zealotâs kit.
Toughness working like a shield was fine as a mechanic, I really donât get why they changed it at allâŚ
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like chip damge is some major dificulty thing that makes damnation harder/more fun.
slowly dying is not adding to fun, it simply punishes you for slow map progression
Was it fine? There were people reliably beating damnation and already getting bored with the game by the end of closed beta weekend lol. The Tide games live and die off difficulty long term. I want a long learning curve and frankly bleed through helps force me to try and make less mistakes.
The funny thing is the exact same cycle of reactions happened when Winds of Magic nerfed dodges hard back in VT2. I was among the complainers at the time, but with some tweaking and time to adjust, most long term players seemed to come around to the idea it was actually one of the healthiest changes made over the life of the game. And relearning the game after WoM dropped ended up being some of the most enjoyable hours I had with the game over its entire life.
@Saryk Iâm a bit disappointed to see you of all people in the âscrap chip entirelyâ camp. Itâs a smart mechanic to make it harder to stack toughness boosts and avoid a huge amount of damage. I still think once bugs are fixed and the new system settles, the consensus will shift towards the idea chip is for the best ultimately.
You donât have to find it fun, but donât tell me what is/isnât fun as if it were objective. Yes chip is fun to me. It makes even pure hordes threatening and keeps you under constant pressure. It feels satisfying to me to be pushed to minimise all damage taken as much as possible. You donât have to feel the same way, itâs cool, but considering itâs not even working as intended yet letâs give it a bit of time.
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So youâre definition of âfunâ is getting smacked in the back by an enemy you couldnât block or dodge and taking 20% health. Things that are outside your control in a game that punish you, are not fun. If you miss a dodge and get hit, fine thatâs a skill issue, but this is pure frustration.
Honestly put in 50 hrs in the beta, was willing to put more, but this is so absolutely broken, itâs not fun.
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Difficulty could be handled better. For example just nerfing toughness 20% across the board instead of bleedthrough, and reducing wounds by 1 and 2 respectively on heresy and damnation (iâd also say increase them by 2 and 1 respectively on the first two difficulties).
Corruption is also a better designed attrition mechanic than bleedthrough because of how wounds work.
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Yeah, Zealot has gotten a massive nerf due to them deciding to make chip damage be a thing. I remember loving playing Zealot in the closed beta due to just how tanky they were. Felt good to be able to hold off the hordes as long as I timed my charge right. A lot of their stuff is about helping them tank. But since chip damage was added in, Iâve barely touched the class. Mainly been playing ogryn since theyâre the only one whose defensive benefits actually matter.
I strongly disagree that situation isnât avoidable. Besides if the backstab sound effect doesnât proc thatâs a problem with that sound effect, not bleed through. Donât conflate different issues.
Yes, itâs literally broken. Again itâs bugged, possibly beyond even the known issue listed in the patch notes. Wait for fix then see how it actually feels.
@Vandicus honestly I find bleed through to be a more elegant difficulty increase than any of the things youâve mentioned, which isnât to say other sliders shouldnât also be tweaked to achieve a satisfying difficulty. We just disagree here and thatâs fine, but I donât think thereâs anything further to discuss.
Itâs not that I dislike chip damage and that it should be removed, the issue Iâm having is that they had decided on a way this mechanic was supposed to work, built other mechanics around it, and that worked ; and then for some reason decided to scrap it and change it entirely without thinking about how it would affect the rest of the mechanics they had based on this foundation. Zealot makes no sense, for instance.
Getting hit is part of the game, if there was no chip damage good players would never lose a point of HP. Itâs not like VT2 THP prevents you from losing health - hell losing health is a prerequisite to gaining THP.
That being said, Iâd like toughness to act like a shield against ranged damage, and that would break at the first melee hit you take without hitting your health, regardless of current toughness.
That would mean that Zealots mechanics or getting a melee kill for anyone else would grant you some little toughness, allowing you to reset that single no damage hit at regular intervals that would still allow a fair mix of tanking hits and taking hits.
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Fair point that the top players would end up having things fall off for them at a certain point, but thatâs also true of the current state of things. People can still reliably beat damnation and find it too easy, itâs just less people now. The problem is that the changes theyâve made hit the lower end of players as well and make the experience far less enjoyable for most of the players (As is clearly shown by how popular this thread is).
The ideal solution would be for chip damage to be either kept as an optional modifier OR as something that only appears on threat 4+ missions (Maybe 3+ missions but 4+ feels more keeping in line with the larger difficulty increase in VT2). Because as it currently stands most people arenât wanting to have the more stressful death by a thousand cuts experience that itâs currently giving.
I do think though that in the short term they should just put toughness back to the way things were before with the simple system of it being a shield, simply because that system wasnât having any technical issues. Saves them trying to fix it right now and lets them focus on other problems. After the games more stable, then they can focus on adding in modifiers like chip damage and such (Kinda like how VT2 had the deed modifiers for instance, chip damage could be there, though preferably not requiring you to collect deeds and just being a thing you could turn on to boost rewards)
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How does Zealot make no sense. He has resist death every 90 seconds and the ability to heal during the 5 second invulnerability. Plus he has incredible toughness DR and regen options. Now he takes no damage at full toughness he should be pretty damn tanky.
The big problems with Zealot are that Martyrdom doesnât get stacks how itâs meant to, and the low hp bonus attack speed talent was thoughtlessly imported from VT2 with no adaptation. If it was +4% AS per stack of martyrdom and martyrdom stacked every 15 health lost as intended then you could use health curios to have an extremely functional âlow hpâ build (with the health curios you could have full bonuses at like 70% hp which really ainât asking that much).
Until they fix Zealot martyrdom and current acknowledged bleed through bugs talking about whether Zealot can function with bleed through or not feels egregiously speculative.
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Again Iâm just gonna point out that until the bugs in the current implementation are fixed, nobody is seeing the system as it is actually intended, so until we actually get to play the intended experience, frankly I think thereâs too much assumption going on.
Iâm not even saying that I 100% think itâs a good mechanic as is, just that I like the general idea and want to give it more time to settle (and not be bugged lol) before shouting for chip to be removed entirely.
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Last time I checked, resisting death left you at 1hp and barely delayed being dropped. Iâll enquire further on this topic.
Also I edited my previous post.