So much people are complaining about RNG, I’m surprised… Is it just me who actually enjoys and gets much more motivated by possibility of getting better item drop, or getting utterly bored playing same maps with same mobs spawned at same spots, including bosses? Like, fr, I didn’t encounter the original crafting system, and may be it was a bit too intense (I believe blesses were random in addition to the stats, and you couldn’t re-bless the item, right?) - but the current system is just boring and you have everything maxed in no time, losing a HUGE part of excitement and incentive when completing a mission. For me it’s like that, at least, they should have found some middle ground, made the gear progression slower, make some additional slower progression only available in Havoc and Auric modes (and not working beyond those modes). Like, you can further advance masteries and equipment’s stats - but it’s very slow, rather random, and just there to give you a sense of long-term goal.
And ofc I would love to see much more randomness during the mission, random maps, changing mobs, bosses spawning at different spots each time etc. At least on Auric+ difficulties, it’s supposed to provide challenge, right? If you know what you’ll face before you go there, that’s already less challenging.
Random blessings and perks, only one of each could be swapped at all, initially those were outright randomly rolled as well, just…absolutely terrible everything. They slowly salami-sliced stuff but kept the core random (even down to random weapon stats) until Unlocked and Loaded finally ended it.
Now good gear is only a tiny part of the equation, and there are very few complaints about RNG because it was taken out behind the shed and shot dead in the most part.
Mastery takes a pretty substantial chunk of time to max out, and in my eyes itemization shouldn’t be the long-term goal - penances should be. Things that reward long-term playtime and skill. Not just getting lucky rolls on the slot machine.
Also, let’s not try and lock things beyond cosmetics behind the sweatlord difficulties.
If the latter isn’t good enough to get one online to enjoy the game for its own sake, it feels like all one is doing is feeding a gambling compulsion with the former. Seeing some cool reward of some sort drop from time to time can be a great neat surprise from a gameplay design perspective, but grinding RNG for gear (especially incremental upgrades) is an abysmal feeling for many. That sort of things burned me out almost two decades ago in WoW.
It’s so depressing, because for some reason I can’t get a decent connection to the servers, despite it being fairly decent on release/beta.
Playing solo/with other players via P2P is the only real way for me to enjoy the game due to living fairly far away from the servers, but it’s just not a thing.
I really feel like I’ve been bamboozled, but it’s my fault that I did not refund the game in time despite the state it was on release, hoping that they will eventually fix it.
The “solo is almost done” post was genuinely manipulative as shite.
Yea, right, and games like Diablo and Path of Exile, super popular games, having a cult status at that point - that use the same system of gear hunting and improving, are just big casinos at that point. And there were absolutely no joy in finding some cool gear in games like BG3 or Witcher 3, which was better than anything you had, added no thrill at all to the adventure. Or may be all those game designers in charge of those projects just know something about games raging crowd out there that wants everything asap doesn’t?
Or games like Synthetik or Deeprock Galactic, also extremely popular games at it, heavily employing random generation for the mission maps - need to tell their developers that what people actually need is to do hundreds of runs on the very same map with very same foes at very same places, because routine is what’s makes our lives fun! Surely if you want your game to be somewhat more complex and variable than a hammer, you need to treat that gambling addiction of yours
i don’t know, maybe you like gambling, but for most players it was simply throwing away a lot of resources and still not getting what we wanted. utterly frustrating.
this being said, most players with the true levels in the hundreds or thousands don’t like having to start from scratch with the arbites and playing low difficulties because it seems a chore. i would have liked to have a guy with 30 talent points to distribute, period.
even more for mastery. either i’ve done something wrong (didn’t have much time for trying) or one really has to gain mastery by using a weapon instead of throwing resources at the problem and sacrificing weapons. i made o bunch of greens at level 1 and gained nothing, and that mastery menu is another chore.
RNG has a place, but most of the RNG that’s been hamfisted into Darktide is just not it. There’s definitely a thrill to getting new gear, but having to grind RNG for it sucks. If it’s a reward for completing a quest, or something you spend lots of time gathering components to craft, or an enemy’s mighty weapon, great. Finding a neat upgrade once in a while as loot in a deep RPG where world exploration is a huge thing can be fun. Needing to grind for upgrades and hoping for random drops, especially while looking for something specific does not feel so great, particularly in a game that’s more first person shooter/hacknslash than deep RPG.
In Diablo and PoE, progression through gear is the core mechanic, it’s built around offering that reward cycle, for Darktide the gear has a hard power cap and limit. You can’t continually keep finding more powerful Lasguns forever (or expect a new power level rise next seasons), once you hit the power limit of the gear, you’re essentially considered kitted to go try and maximize your potential capability and see how much difficulty you can survive, the gear is there to support the player’s progression, not to be the core of the progression. The RNG stuff we have in there is essentially unnecessarily hamfisted and there’s a reason it’s mostly avoided by competing 4 person coop titles (DRG’s overclocks being the only exception I can think of, which is also why I haven’t bothered with them really). That doesn’t preclude RNG being used for fun rewards, DRG does this magnificently with things like the Yuletide Elf or Huuli Hoarder or Crassus Detonator.
I also find both Diablo and PoE to be insanely boring clickfests built heavily around adolescent ADHD and gambling compulsions (note: this doesn’t mean spending actual money, though D3 at one point had its real-money auction house) and similar mental ticks, so make of that what you will. Loved the original Fallout games, similarly isometric RPGs, but way more focused on story and worldbuilding with tons of wild loot but it was mostly all found in specific places with set stats.
Regarding missions, Darktide is essentially a Left4Dead clone where the core game was centered around playing through what were presented as scenes from movies. The core design concept with that kind of experience is inherently intended to be repeatable, the player is logging into e-Warhammerland to ride the Hab Dreyko or Chasm Terminus rides that they’re familiar with. A DRG or HD2 style random generated terrain isn’t suited to that design concept, fun as it could potentially be.
No one said ANYTHING about the RNG within missions, in fact, there has been pretty consistent criticisms that there still isn’t enough (no path randomisation, no chaos wastes equivalent, the trigger points are very static, etc. etc.)
The criticisms about too much RNG are mostly on the support systems that don’t need it, itemisation/crafting, mission select, Melk, etc. Darktide is neither an APRG or a looter shooter, the natural item drops are too sparse and none of the systems, especially inventory management and UI, support dealing with a glut of items very well.
Fatshark decided that Arbites shouldn’t get the same universal cosmetics as the other three classes and deliberately removed them shortly after the DLC launched, then confirmed this was intentional.
Y’know, if you doubted that they were engaged in scummy double dipping at this point.
I was inclined to buy the class, because I think it’s fair to charge for this kind of content – not a universally agreed-upon opinion I know. I haven’t been very vocal about it because I’m wary of arguing against my best interests and I’ve been taught (by FS) to be extremely wary of giving them more than the minimum amount of my money.
Buuuut I just don’t feel like it now, with all this coming to light. Sorry not sorry FS.
The silver crust to the poop sandwich is the sheer number of complaints veteran players are now airing about the leveling process. It’s tolerable but not great, and although it’s a temporarily hot issue I hope it results in some (more?) improvement. Can’t wait for them to hit 30 and have to get their p curios all over again – that REALLY needs to change.
I was on the fence about buying the arbites DLC, but the way they’ve handled this release (arbites cosmetics, mission board, the new character process even if one already has a level 30 character, the event being unfun and unrewarding, etc.) has tipped me over into not buying the DLC for the foreseeable future.
Would also like to mention that I got a LOT of cosmetics for the four base classes, both from the penance track and achievements directly, that did not carry over to Arbites - the only good looking stuff so far is MTX.
Additionally, all the cosmetics you earn from achievements look pretty much the same.
I’m quite enjoying the Arbites update generally, but I’m still so frustrated with the lack of Solo. It’s been officially announced that the Arbites arrive after the Battle of Tertium, so shouldn’t be played in the new narrative mode, and yet taking my Veteran through the new narrative content from level 1 means playing with three other Arbitrators every. single. game. Ugh. Please, please let me equip some bots and stop the madness.
The event is such a major letdown after the peak of Dark Rituals. Throw in the aquila reward withdraw most of us knew was coming and it sucked all the wind out of the update’s sails for me.
Ever thought that not everyone has the gambling reward loop? I know, crazy idea. I didn’t get any joy from the old gear system, instead it was just an end to annoyance (more often turning the game off and doing literally anything else frustration), nothing else.
I enjoy playing poe, not because of the loot grind but because I actually enjoy the gameplay. I would prefer a reasonable way for people who do not enjoy the gear grind to aquire gear in that game. But PoE 2 looks like it is going in the right direction in that regard.
Usually after I touch grass 24 hours later I am more chill about nonsense like the Arbities cosmetic issue but this time they really did push me too far lol.
I edited my post and review in the Arbites thread to be a bit more concise and less emotional, but I’m actually at the point where I don’t think I’ll be playing anymore after 2,500 hours. It’s not because I’m bored either, I was really anticipating the new class and the balance changes sound amazing for the weapons I use a lot (especially the tac-ax and claw-sword), but the disrespect for their customers with the cosmetic deal is really beyond the pale.
It’s kind of like when you hear about horrific stuff happening across the planet and you can’t really get too worked up, but you see someone toss a smoke or a plastic cup out of their car window and your blood boils. It’s not because the act is relatively heinous, it’s because it would have taken so LITTLE effort to have just not done that.
That kind of disrespect really rustles my jimmies. If I don’t come back then god-speed on this thread, hope it continues as long as ya’ll are able to.
Even if Steam won’t refund you, Fatshark might. They gave me a refund after ~45 hours by going through their support. I just cited the lies about Solo Mode and said I’d consider buying the game again if it’s ever added
Look at Vermintide 2. There’s minor RNG to the weapons in the properties and traits, but the fun and replayability isn’t “getting that perfect weapon” it’s “slaying hordes of ratmen and chaos”. I don’t know who at Fatshark thought that an Diablo-clone loot grind is what the franchise needed but they missed the mark. Some RNG/Customization is good, the levels we had/have in Darktide is not
I tried last year, and unfortunately they told me that “due to your hours played exceeding our refund threshold, we are unable to process a refund in this situation.”
I’ll try again since you people seemed to have success with this, but I doubt anything will come out of it.
The funny thing is that 90% of my playtime comes from the pre-release beta. I have tried to play the game since then in 2023 and 2024, but always dropped it after a couple of games because of how miserable playing with high ping and rubberbanding felt.
I genuinely don’t even want to refund, I want to be able to enjoy the fricking game, man…
