I dunno if that’s the case. Cata is hardly ever populated. Normally anywhere from 3-15 games going, including private ones and weaves, worldwide. The bulk of players are still very much in Legend. They just seem to be unable to adjust to the changes. Gotta admit, I’m still not a fan either. Ended up completely changing all my classes properties and the way I play them…
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Well counterpoint, there are not a lot of QP Cata but that’s also because without vocal, it’s hard : A lot of cata game are premade.
Now, if you did some weaves, you’ll see there’s also a lot of weaves launched.
Of course there’s still a big base of legend players, but you won’t find the stronger ones. But it’s great to see new blood in the game as well, they’re just not on par level wise yet. (which is normal)
There’s also that, but we can’t really know the proportions there.
I think there is just a really big divide between QP and premade teams and Legend is currently way too much tailored arround premades. And as someone who is allways trying to play the missing link in a team and foster more Teamplay Legend is just too unforgiving if you are not in voicechat. And you can see that once at least two players are in a private voicechat that win rates go up dramatically and people actually take books and finish runs.
However I think the current state of the game completly undermines the existence of QP-features. You just won’t get the same level of teamplay without Voicechat so actually doing QP puts you at a massive disadvantage which the game doesn’t account for. Which is just unfair period. And I think there should be an adjustment in difficulty for QP as you won’t be able to educate everyone to the high standards of FS. And I don’t mean that in a cynical way- there will allways be bad players but as a better player you get punished for the inaptitude of other players. So if VT is designed arround impaccable coordination and voicechat then why bother with a quickplay option at all?
And I generally start to agree less and less with rasing the difficulty on Legend. If you want a game mode that requires Voicechat and perfect coordination you have Cata now. So why make Legend (and especially QP legend) more difficult? And I mean difficult in the way that more specials and etc. spawning. I’m fine with the new mechanics and stuff.
Talking about Loot: I think FS has a very strange relationship with high end stuff and “locking” red items behind a difficulty that requires teamplay is as none-sensical as pre- WoM tHP Talents, which you got on what- like level 25? Meaning that the better you got at the game the easier it got. And the same thing is done with red items. The players that need them the least get acces while players that would benefit from that are stuck grinding.
And @LightKross sure things were different back then. However Loot has an impact on gameplay itself so of course you kind of want it as otherwise you might be at a disadvantage. It’s debatable how much of that is really the case but the point beeing is that it just feels bad to think that you are limited in your success because you don’t have that. Might be delusional to think that better gear makes you a better player but people wanting more loot might be thinking that their bad performance is due to bad or worse gear. So to an extend I get that people are frustrated with not getting as much loot as previously on Legend. I think this has nothing to do with players changing but with different approaches to game design. Back then developers didn’t use stuff like that to get you hooked.
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Why would it take you 5 hours to unlock a weapon if you can do it in 20 minutes on recruit
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And also @LightKross with the addition of Cata and weaves Legend isn’t endgame content anymore and is far from the highest difficulty. No one pre-WoM would have thought of Champion as part of the endgame.
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Going into QP Legend at the moment is for when you’re having a nice day, things are going your way for a change and you want to wreck your happy place and go to bed in a boiling rage, grinding your teeth.
Like @SmokerT69 I’ve adjusted to Legend, and it’s really restricted my play-style to Battle Wizard Fire-And-Forget, Kruber/Bardin Unkillable Shield and Unchained -30% damage for things on fire. Sometimes Ranged-Meta BH with Xbow.
Having made the adjustment it’s not much fun. Designing a build around your own survivability first and everything else second indicates team-play cannot be forced.
Couple that with the insta-kills of double leeches in a poison cloud or banner-boi horde in a 2 foot square room, while a Minotaur spawns directly up your marmite fritter and it’s game over.
Patches gradually creeping us back to a fairly bug-free place are welcome, but should never have been necessary in the first place. I’m still here, still hoping for the game I love to arrive with a four pack of beers and a profound apology so we can pick up from where we left off.
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Premade private games still show up in the browser if you set it to “all” instead of “joinable”. I can assure you there is hardly anyone on Cata.
This is from this morning,
And this is from right now, prime time in the EU,
There’s 18 games world wide, this includes weaves and private games. As you can see, there’s a lot of games with just 1 person that are set to private.
Or, perhaps 4 man games don’t show up in the browser anymore like they use too? That would be a strange change to make though.
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So we have a very little Players in Cata while people are afraid to even take books in Legend…?
Seems that way yea xD I try and take at least one friend with me into QPs, so we can take the grims and 2 of the tomes. Then just carry the other two 
I don’t think your view is wrong, I do think that it’s a bit misguided. Playing as a squad is fing amazing when you can reach the people you’re playing with. Pre made or finding like-minded in QP (too rare occasion) can give you great experiences, but for some it’s not that easy to get through communication barriers, for some they came from hard day outside and they just want to sit down, start the mission and get to end screen.
I personally don’t expect more from anyone in QP, that’s why I don’t like playing without a friend at the least for duo QP.
You’re not considering that there’s literally 2 anti rush mechanics, one for solo, one for team rushing. Solo spawns more specials, team one activated more hordes in very simple terms.
You do need to be faster than your usual QP, it’s more like premade rush inhibitor.
And no, you didn’t come off aggressive, frustrated more.
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Slowly… slowly… things feel like there are improving in my legend QP’s.
Last night i played with a few different QP groups and two of them were actively using in-game voice. It makes an enormous difference. In one group I got on voice and started barking a few basic orders (mostly “wait up” or "group up on “X”) and it makes a difference.
Now, one group had some decent players but we wiped on each attempt. In each case, it was 100% due to one or more players deciding to yolo off ahead of the pack. And when I say work as a group, I think it’s perfectly fine for people to get slightly separated, like 15-20 paces apart at times and still have some situational awareness and cohesion. That’s okay. The problem is people just running off (or running way back) and getting far away from each other.
More so than the physical distance between players is whether or not you are in a position to reliably support each other. I had a wipe on Garden of Moore when going down one of the long crypt stairways. We were all down below and two people yolo’d up the stairs fighting their way out and then rats flooded in behind splitting the group with no way to get through to each other when we got in trouble. We were not physically far apart, but we were completely cut off.
The other group we all rolled through Dark Omens on legend without too much of a sweat (till the end). The finale is all about just kiting the Minotaur + mobs once he shows up and waiting for the three banners to drop, kiting your way to those, and taking them out. Don’t even bother trying to fight the final beef wall.
TLDR - teamplay is really needed, and communication can really help. Until people settle into a new playstyle norm and get more comfortable with their role, the communication is really important to making legend work at all in QP.
Beastmen could still stand to be tuned down however.
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I think quite few people underestimate how many people playing legend before were actually struggling.
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Yes, I was very comfortable in legend eventually. I picked up the game later in its life cycle, but eventually got good enough to carry my weight and more in legend with most careers. 2.0 was a very harsh reset of everything I had learned. I’ve mostly adapted but certain fundamentals have just changed.
It’s not longer possible to control a horde with all characters. Hyperstacking and the lack of cleave mean you HAVE to have a shield or 2 Handed hammer for the unlimited AOE CC, and Flamethrowers while an annoyance before are now a huge boon.
Avoiding damage isn’t possible in hordes for a lot of characters, temp health has dissapeared if you aren’t elite hunting or shield bash cheesing. And people are fighting for Elite Kills now…
While I am speaking more in game, I liked that it wasn’t necessary before, 4 people could play together, knew to kill specials, when 1 person went of for the grim the other 3 would wait for him or maybe 1 would go with that person, now it feels like you need all 4 to stay together always.
The game was HARD on legend for me, I eventually learned to be comfortable with that difficulty, because it was fair and I had the tools to deal with the challenges the game presented. I felt rewarded for using them correctly.
Now it feels unfair because I don’t have the tools to deal with hordes on my own. Only certain careers/weapons can manage them now. They move faster, surround a player better, inhibit movement, and our dodge has been reduced. You Have to retreat away from hordes to a defensible spot and group up, and that’s not always feasible.
I miss charging in to the ratmen instead of running away from them. I’d be much more aggressive if THP was back on cleave and a bunch of other skills. It was more fun with more health, simple as that. It feels like I’m playing Deeds on old legend., which wasn’t something you wanted to do in QP.
The game is still fun, but it’s less fun and the moments of pure frustration are a LOT higher.
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I have seen an improvement from the last patch. It is now very rare to be hit when doing a push attack, blocking appears to work again, and I can hear most enemies.
The handful of successful legend runs I have had involved 0-1 grim & 0-2 tomes. I’ve seen people leave game because I didn’t grab a grim, but we actually made it through that mission. All that being said I still have had probably 5 wins over the last week with probably 20hrs of game time. 10 hrs of that was bracksonbruke though.
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My guess would be because of beastmen and other new mechanics added with WoM. Stagger changes, dodge changes, anyone who hasn’t played post WoM extensively might still be used to the old game. However, beastmen in particular make any normal run pretty difficult. Wiping vs banners and horde isn’t too unheard of in my legend games.
Edit: I’ve also noticed a change in special spawn rates. Now it seems like they spawn 4-6 at a time even during hordes. This could also be the cause of increased wipes.
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Special spam is pretty brutal but I hear pacing a run can really help here. People are being taught to play hyper defensively because hordes are so brutal but it seems hyper aggression deals with specials far more effectively, elites are as always good THP generation low risk unless they spawn on top of you or are silent. This is only anecdotal, but it feels true.
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