Royalewithcheese
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Without a mod to add Bon Joviâs Living on a Prayer (just need to sync up the âWooooah, weâre half way thereâ with active data interrogators and youâre golden), any longer than 4 seconds would be entering the realm of tedious 
Being able to channel indefinitely would be broken AF, you could just make your team immortal, making anything bar disablers non-threatening - thatâd probably be boring for all involved, not just the Zealot
Itâs not necessarily a style of play for everyone, it just bugs me to see things getting dismissed before theyâve had a chance to be experienced.
Unless Iâm mistaken, isnât Adhesive Charge getting adjusted to stick to Ogryns as well? Should make the Rumbler a lot more effective against Crushers, especially with Shattering Impact
TY!
We see how it turns out, but it will be probably better than it is now at least against single ogryns. IDK if it will make a difference against groups where you probably want to just CC as many of them as possible.
Isnât that the same as what I said?
I used mandatory. You said tax. Same meaning, the post used both.
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I disagree on that front.
The game design here seems very intent on the Crusherâs role. That is - To be an extra strong, high-threat enemy who requires team effort to take down. Itâs also one of the only enemies who can one-shot down and one-shot kill players, even most bosses canât.
Some enemies in games are geared toward that.
Outside of a few instances, almost every weapon and ability has greatly reduced damage against Carapace armor. Even the options that are âstrongâ against it, are still only half effective compared to other armor types. Just take a peek at all the gear and itâs damage values.
Just because we as players have gotten really good at clutching and taking most things on solo, it doesnât mean this was the intended design for the gameplay.
The game clearly is kitchen sink mode on the harder difficulties with the intention of forcing you to 4 man the whole thing. So there is no desire from the devâs side to give you tools to deal with everything effectly and truly there isnât.
Bolter and Helbore Lasgun (both can delete crushers) exemplify this. They deal heavy damage, but are unwieldy, slow and ammo inefficient to the highest degree. They are weak against hordes and make you vulnerable when surrounded.
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really⌠where did you go?
Letâs summarizeâŚ
- I say that I hope for a good new balance with the patch incoming. I said specifically about ranged too strong weapons (ripper gun, bolter).
At the same time, I emitted a personal opinion that I would like an other option as ranged weapon that can be good against bolter. - I explained that I talk about the melee weapons that are weak against carapace (HS mainly, but catachan sword also and perhaps catachan blade)
So, I often like your posts⌠but here⌠I canât see the purpose.
So, do you think it would be bad for zealot to see the bolter and revolver variants be released? keep in mind they are ready for more than 4 months now.
Thatâs all I said⌠that I would like these variants, especially revolver one (we have actually light variant revolver). This and that the Bolter is a little too strong as it covers the niches of the revolver and shotguns. I hope the next patch will change this balance (but obviously that was not the purpose of your post).
I disagree.
I do all my builds with the idea that I could have to survive alone, and so I have to be able to fight any enemies. A crusher is clearly not an enemy that need a team work, a chaos spawn is.
Anyways, thatâs my way to play⌠I donât want to have a weakness. A build has to be able to face anything, from an horde, to a monstrosity and crushersâŚ
Man⌠I want to be free of stacks.
I think few keystones can make game quite unsatisfyingâŚ
-zealot keystones
Blazing piety : +15% Critical Hit Chance for 8s when in Fury. Fury is triggered when 25 Enemies have died within 25m.
=> You canât get critical when you want. Buff on when situation ended. Regardless effectiveness of critical stats.
Maybe binds to special key or just flat stacks on hits would be better.
Martyrdom : Each missing Wound grants +8% Melee Damage, up to 9 missing Wounds.
=>Isnât this a direct nerf??? Why did you do this. Current mechanism is better. Not by hp %. But hp number would work.
Inexorable Judgment : Moving grants you Momentum (Stacks 20 times). When you Hit an Enemy, spend all Momentum, gaining +1% Melee Attack Speed, +1% Ranged Attack Speed, and +1% Damage per Stack. Lasts 8s.
=>Really donât like these stacks things⌠Stacks on slide or dodge would be good⌠pleaseâŚ
Donât know we can maintain full 20 stacks during combat⌠By looking stats, highly impossible. Then 1~2 stacks during complex combat? OhâŚ
-Psyker
Warp Siphon: Killing an Elite or Specialist Enemy gains you a Warp Charge for 25 seconds, stacking 4 time(s). Your next Combat Ability spends all available Warp Charges to reduce the Cooldown of that Combat Ability by 7.5% per Warp Charge.
=>Warp charge have been really annoying stack. But Fatshark made this better. Stack on special/elite kills. Donât have to kill by blitz. 4 stacks per 20s would be too much, losing warp charge means BB will be weaker. You cannot oneshot something after using ult. Quite bad synergy⌠Deleting stack loss would be much better⌠Really.
Empowered Psionics: Kills have a 7.5% chance to Empower your next Blitz.
=>Just timer here?
Disrupt Destiny: Every second, Enemies within 25m have a chance of being Marked. Killing a Marked Enemy Replenishes 10% Toughness, grants +20% Movement Speed for 2.5s, and adds a Precision Bonus for 15s. Each Precision Bonus grants +1% Damage, +2% Critical Damage and +2,5% Weakspot Damage. Precision Bonus Stacks 15 times.
=>Another stacks here. Quite annoying and stressful. No stacks here, But 10 stacks buff from first.
I donât know wht Fatshark loves stacks this much. But many stacks things donât make game satisfying. Buffs donât have to be complicated.
Love your work though⌠please donât make us a slave of stacks.
If you build some wounds (at least 2 wounds are available in the talent tree, so you donât have to go all in on curios), you can surpass todayâs Martyrdom at a lower cost. That said, itâs very expensive health-wise early without additional wounds (50% health for one stack on Heresy/Damnation), but a good bit cheaper if you go to 9 wounds (66% health versus 90% health for 6 stacks). We also donât know what the upgrades to Martyrdom do. Looking at the icons, it looks like some sort of defense boost (shield icon) and speed boost (stacked arrow pointing forward, possibly a replacement for Retribution)
Weâll have to see how frequently this stacks/how much movement is required, before any judgement can be made. That said, the text isnât the most self-explanatory - does the resulting buff stack or does it overwrite?
The damage bonus from Warp Charges themselves may be gone (either elsewhere in the tree, or possibly baked into BB itself); the fact that gaining a Warp Charge is tied to killing an elite/specialist (instead of any BB kill) makes me think that, at least.
I feel you on that front. Most things being stack dependend feels monotone. Good thing a lot of the other new talents arenât.
It reads worse than it actually is. Killing 25 enemies within 25m without leaving those 25m happens all the time.
This is essentially up 100% of the time you fight, whenever it is not a singular monster or small Ogryn Crusher group.
Actually a full-scale buff. At current you can only stack Martyrdom up 3 times, or 6 if you pick itâs talent.
In the new version you can stack it seemingly higher.
This by the way also means, that getting more wounds will be possible. And:
The game intensity must be seriously picking up, if the devs think everyone can run around with 10 wounds and still be sufficiently challenged.
Doesnât look like something to me, that youâre supposed to upkeep during combat. More likely, this is in essence like an improved, character-baked in âOpening Salvoâ or âLimb Splitterâ.
First attack gets extra nasty.
You might call this useless, but this can be helpful when chasing pox hounds, muties, bosses or when dealing with singular enemies / shooter groups that make you chase them.
Agreed on that front.
Based on the ability description alone, I assumed it was âindefinite time (or, at least longer than 4 secondsâŚ), but Zealot canât move.â. 4 seconds every 60 seconds is a pretty brutal uptime ratio. Not being able to move is a huge handicap for the team, and limiting it to those in coherency means they canât move far or be far away.
Incidentally, Iâd like to see some coherency indicators other than just the stack icon. An ability like this is going to be tough to use if you donât know whether the specific friendly you want to save is within coherency or not.
Iâm not dismissing it. Like Iâve said, itâll probably be useful for saving teammates whoâve gone down or are about to go down (hell, one of the options for it might be an auto-pickup a-la Merc Kruberâs shout).
I just donât think itâll be this hail-mary âsave a desperate last standâ glory play that people seem to think it will be (unless you can get a 3-man auto-pickup, or something). If you can turn that sort of situation around within 4 seconds with at least 1/4 of your damage offline and with limited ability to move, you can do it even more easily with all 4 teammates swinging and moving freely.
As for experiencing it, I donât need to experience it in this game to know it wonât be engaging to use. Iâve done it in a million other games with channel mechanics and while they can certainly be impactful, theyâre never fun.
In fact, Iâd bet money to say that itâll actually get people killed, at least at first. People will go all âhey, Iâm invulnerable, Iâmma mash LMB a bunch and kill everyth⌠oh Iâm dead because 4 seconds isnât long enough to kill much and it ran out and I didnât noticeâ.
No, but meme builds are only fun until the novelty wears off. In most games, people pick good builds over meme builds for longer term play.
I am speculating on where theyâll succeed. Iâm just being realistic about it. Iâve played games with these mechanics before and I know how theyâre used in practice.
I agree. An ability like that should come with an appropriately sized glowing globe around the user.
Not just for the user, but also for teammates to see when and where the buff is active.
Where did you get the idea that you canât move while channeling Chorus?
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very cool ideas!
I hope Fatshark sees them and other people build on them too 
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Thatâs actually a really good question. Looking back at it, this isnât mentioned. In fact, the teaser clip does show what looks like the zealot moving while holding the relic.
Does that change my feelings about it though? Not really. Not unless the modifiers add some game-changing functionality, which is certainly a possibility.
I feel the same wayâŚ
So basically they want us to run âas little HP as possibleâ (because running wound curios means you donât run HP curios) instead of âas little HP% as possibleâ
Also what happens between difficulties?
If I play Malice itâs easier for me to get max damage stacks but if I play Damnation itâs harder for me to get max damage stacks?
Other people here understand why this is bad design or is this just me?
The argument âwell damnation should be harderâ doesnât stand because the way this is designed is basically translated as âyou will get talent penalties if you play damnation while other builds/classes donât get any penaltiesâ
Am I interpreting it right: That a âmissing woundâ means a wound segment that has no health in it? Not a wound thatâs been blocked by knockdowns/corruption, right?
Also, am I reading your argument right: That running less HP rather than less HP% is bad because HP% allows you to hold on to more HP while getting the max damage bonus? And that this is bad in damnation because itâs harder to get that low without dying?
What makes that bad design?
The fact that on Heresy/Damnation, you have one less wound by default. It doesnât bother me too much, but it does mean you have to invest more at higher difficulties to achieve the same results - either losing more health (50% vs 33% with 0 extra wounds) or getting additional sources of +wounds to match
That does seem a bit odd that theyâd link the bonus to something that changes between difficulties. Even if thereâs a way to counteract it with the skill system, it still comes across as something of a âdifficulty taxâ.
Honestly, I donât think itâll be a game changing thing. At least, not more so than Chastise already is. I think after the first week or two, the people who want that kind of play style will love it and everyone else will go back to stabbing real good.
I think itâll suffer from skill issues, personally. That is, the better your team, the less you need to use it, and the worse your team, the less it actually helps.
I think a good team will be able to leverage the extra defense to be more aggressive, but itâll probably be a lot less valuable in pugs. If youâve ever played Overwatch and popped Zenâs ult on a push only to see your whole team standing 50 feet off objective picking their noses, youâll know what I mean. Coordination is key with this kind of team oriented ability and that can be hard to find.