Survivalist is too game changing

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
1

I’ve thought in this a lot, I’ll edit this post with new or relevant info, I just want to get it started.

Ammo economy is a pressure on the team, survivalist. There are currently 4 ways to generate ammo in the game (5 if you can’t the vet laser crit talent) - survivalist, pick pocket, ammo restoration pod, Burst Limiter Override.

Alleviating that pressure creates for a radically different gameplay experience on higher end difficulties. Not to the point where skilled players aren’t going to power through (they will, plenty of true solo videos out there)

My point then? We’ve got 2 classes that can regenerate ammo on their own at this point, and survivalist is a nice enhancement for them. Maybe it’s time to change survivalist over to being weak spot damage aura instead. Then give arbites, and veteran a personal ammo regen talent. This will make expeditions and the maelstrom modifier for no ammo feel less vet dependent.

I’ve seen a LOT of interesting ideas so I’m going to post them here.

Convert survivalist to a 15-30% weak spot damage aura node

Convert survivalist to a 7.5-10% rending aura node

Convert survivalist to an aura that lowers the chance to use ammo by 5-10%

Convert survivalist to raise the amount that ammo is regenerated by classes that can generate their own ammo

Open up the “shock trooper” perk to affect all guns, not just las in conjunction with one of these changes.

Removing survivalist as an aura would require ammo generation talents for other classes to help them out on havoc, for example arbites could have a talent called confiscation or contraband that accomplished something similar. Ogryn would need something as well, but I don’t have a good name for it.

2

This will make expeditions and the maelstrom modifier for no ammo feel less vet dependent.

I’ve never thought the difficult part of the C-I-VI maelstrom modifier is the “no ammo” part, but the “only melee scabs” part - because the game director’s budget for elites ends up only being able to go into a wall of crushers and maulers.

It’s a mission where your ranged weapons should really be saved for emergencies and picking off specials - but for the latter category, absolutely every class has an option for either a replenishable throwing knife, rocks, a furry missile, ammo replenishment, or mind bullets, so shouldn’t even need to touch their main ammo reserve that often.

Survivalist is definitely useful to have in these missions, yes, but competent players should be able to deal with limited ammo without it (and it’s not possible to quickplay into any of these missions, so you should know what’s coming).

Hell, I’ve seen team compositions in C-I-VI missions where survivalist really wasn’t that effective a pick. It’s not particularly uncommon for those missions to be predominantly staff psykers, and I have seen lone Vets with a Survivalist aura that wasn’t helping anyone but them.

3

Its like a lot of skills that get way more effective in havoc, shouldn’t warp the base game to accommodate the modifiers and restrictions. There it is basically just keeping dummies on the path not grabbing the abundant ammo they never grab, and then deploy an ammo crate in the ship at the end for laughs.

Ammo was never a concern even with 4 arc rifle Skitarii. I’d blame the low value to vet’s other auras though. Skitarius’ ammo boost is boring but essentially global and they’re liable to pick any nearby aura for the toughness boost, none are particularly outstanding. Scum’s crit chance is very impactful with current crit skills, and melee damage is a generic boost that’s active for the majority of combat. But their ammo aura is really gamey for getting any value at all on, again outside havoc. So its fine.

Vet’s fire team should really be Strength (power) instead of damage, it’d actually be worth swapping auras with another vet around. The movement speed one is just trash and needs a ‘Zealous’ style overhaul where it just gets revamped. I vote +7.5% sprint speed, +5% walk speed, +10% dodge speed.

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++ ‘Burst Limiter Override’ and Psyker’s infinite ammo.

5

MIND BULLETS

6

holy hell you’re right

7

Ammo Restoration Pod is bad. It’s 1 shot’s worth of ammo every 15 seconds.

Burst Limiter Override doesn’t generate ammo per se, it just quite literally gives more bang for your buck

Pickpocket - This was probably the best out of all until the justified nerf. The ammo share aura on Scum is not worth taking.

Survivalist should be an “enforced” default aura for Vet at this point (like Until Death is to Zealot) OR should be a built in feature of other auras.

8

Ammo economy is something they should consider balancing individually per class imo. That being said vets aura unbalances that resource. I think that homogenizing ammo economy given the amount of classes at this point is one of the best answers. Although I can understand why people would dislike the idea.

After all, I used to main a focus target/shout/survivalist/field improv vet

It felt awesome to be wanted in groups constantly. Everyone was always happy for the utility.

9

I completely agree. This would free up more aura options. Its like before the talent tree reworks where you’d be completely locked out of certain nodes depending on what path you took. Making nodes that would other wise be really strong made completely useless because a point tax or just getting locked out.

10

I think this is a horrible idea. Getting rid of survivalists is just down right disgusting.

1.) It’s been heavily nerfed already. I think you’re greatly overstating. Just how strong this aura is in the first place. It’s one percent of your total ammo, so if you’re using a gun like the bolt pistol or the revolver you aint getting sh!t back anyways.

2.) This is effectively a mandatory pickup in every build. Especially for veteran if they’re using automatic weapons. Just because you turn it from being an aura into self targeted skill. You’d still be complaining about the ammo generation.

3.) This is where I tell you, majority of auras, don’t do anything. Or contribute very little to the team. So having an aura like survivalist, is actually really great. It impacts the game so much that it’s the default pick for every veteran build.

4.) Ammo generation isn’t even that big of a deal when you think about it, there’s plenty of times where people will pick up an ammo box, and they’ll never even use it through the entire game. There’s no need for a veteran to even be played for that to be the case. The only time having an ammo generation skill is actually good is when you’re using a range build where you’re burning through ammo.

If you want my honest opinion. Survivalist should just be turned into a default skill, not an aura. So that way you have other options for auras. But this would almost assuredly, come with a skill tree rework.

11

couldn’t agree more, it’s been an issue since the game came out.

make ranged classes self sufficient? now survivalist lets them spam the entire game.
balance it around survivalist? now they struggle hard without a vet

it’s too powerful of an aura to just give one class and nobody else. either remove it from the game or give it to everyone. if you abstract what the aura does into other terms, it becomes painfully obvious why it’s impossible to balance around.

if we assume that the team kills about 200 elites/specialists off cooldown and in coherency (extremely low ball for high difficulties) then it already gives 2 full ammo restores for everyone on the team.

now remember the skitarii aura that gives 10% max ammo? imagine if it gave 200% increased max ammo instead.
or how about if ogryn had an aura that gave everyone a 33% chance to not consume ammo from the ammo reserves on each reload?
these are not QUITE the same becsause that would then also affect %ammo restores but it gives an idea of how stupid high the ammo is on survivalist.

vet could obviously retain a personal version that makes his own ammo economy work.

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I know that it hardly matters for a lot of players but what about the penance for completing a mission with no ammo?

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Removing survivalist isn’t going to change anything. I don’t know if you’ve played a game of Auric recently, but you get plenty of ammo without Veteran existing.

Then, let’s say we’re looking at a modifier, where there’s no ammo pickups. Then Ill just use a class or build that isn’t ammo hungry.

OMG using a gun in the game that has guns make the game to easy. You guys keep finding problems where there are none. Next is gonna be remove grenade generation.

14

you should calm down and read the post properly. i didn’t even talk about any of what you talk about. don’t know what you’re on about.

good point actually. imagine if veteran regenerated grenades for EVERYONE. do you see the balance problem with that?
or is it just “omg imagine using grenades in a game with grenades” in your mind

15

It’s the amount of impact something provides, not what it does. If Hive Scum got to regenerate, Chem Grenades, then that would be considered broken immediately. But no one would care if it took three minutes for Ogryn, to get a frag bomb back.

You completely ignored my point about survivalist not being a problem. People are gonna have ammo, regardless. All you gotta do is look around the map. In fact, if they continue to add more DLC classes, that means there should be less people playing veteran overall. So this ends up becoming even less of a problem that it’s being made out to be.

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Survivalist could just give players a % chance to not consume ammo when firing. It is no longer infinite, while still helping ammo economy.

18

Did it become 2024 again when I wasn’t looking? There is little reason to complain about survivalist in the current state of the game. In nearly everything outside of the upper tiers of havoc there is plentiful ammo. Enough for each mission to support multiple extremely selfish ammo goblins. And in H25+ you’re supposed to feel the resource squeeze. But even in H40 vet is far, far from being as necessary as they were in times of yore. And ever since the last tree revamp there’s now no longer any sort of talent tax opportunity costs associated with picking whichever vet aura you like. Yes, the other auras are terrible and it’s a false choice 95% of the time. That has been the same across all classes since patch 13 and it hasn’t mattered in years because coherency is not a meaningful mechanic in the modern game.

This horse is not just dead, it has been skeletalized and ground into a fine powder. There are so many more important things for Fatshark to address than adjusting vet auras. Even on the vet class itself the auras are down near the bottom of the list of annoyances.

19

ammo isn’t “do you have it or not” its an economy
ranged weapons are limited use weapons that can trivialize certain encounters melee has to try hard to beat

making ammo less limited lets you do that more and has a real impact on the game

having one class give too much ammo to the whole team makes it very very hard to balance this properly

20

This is why they shouldn’t make 2 balance ecosystems and then make things that definitely bust the balance of the design in one but not the other.

Ogryn rumbler and scum rampage are about the only things OP everywhere, even inferno psyker actually gets reeled in by auric’s clearing. It will auto clear left to its own devices, but the rate of team damage keeps it from getting like 40-60% of the damage overall like the increased density and durability of enemies allows in H40 for more perilous combustion procs at higher values.

And while survivalist is huge for eg. Rumbler that weapon is perfectly capable of being overpowered just from lucky bullet. I’d actually recommend running taunt with it over burnlugger since the Rumbler can actually kill a lot from how powerful it is damage wise, and then you have the taunt effect to suck in enemies for more damage. I’d rather they balance a handful of things than render survivalist weaker when its already pretty low impact. Like I do run fire team sometimes if I’m planning on doing 80%+ of my damage with power sword 6. I just wish it was Strength and other auras more appealing. Zealot has a great balance of useful auras, and the obvious Havoc intended choice for some modifiers in Beacon of Purity. But Zealous is so unbelievably good just as a collection of buffs for Zealot, f the team.

Why do the other Vet auras have to be so eggs?

21

they should took the approach of vt2 where ammo is used and conserved only for disablers rather than mag dumping on every enemy possible, and since ammo economy is very forgiving, people can just spam ranged everytime which is just meh, game gets more fun and engaging when melee is also used, and relying on the team’s melee too cause vital