Of which none matter if you don’t have ammo to shoot with.
It’s just what happens when a fundamental part of an archetype gets so heavily nerfed. Should it not have been such a fundamental part of the archetype? Maybe, there are arguments both for and against, but the current nerf is a bit too heavy-handed.
I was more referring to the cooldown being fixed, and not tied to the weapons rate of fire. Slow weapons, which were already more economical, fare much better than something like a Brauto.
Over tuning is also classic fatshark. I almost wonder if goal isn’t gameplay balance between the auras, but balance between player selection of the auras. If someone thinks each aura should have a 33% selection rate amongst Veterans that would explain why they are being so heavy handed. It just ignores the general motivation people have when creating a Veteran: to play a ranged class. It makes sense that the side of the tree that favors ranged combat will be more heavily utilized across the Veteran population.
You may have misunderstood me, or I didn’t express it well enough. I didn’t say slow firing weapons were more powerful than fast weapons. I said slow weapons were already powerful. They benefit more from the fixed cooldown than fast firing weapons. I won’t consume a ton of my ammo in 5 seconds with a revolver unless its the most dire circumstance, but my recon lasgun will be firing much more often much more regularly. This heavily benefits the revolver, which is already far superior. By tying the cooldown to the weapons RoF the effect on ammo consumption would be equalized rather than benefiting slow over fast; and still eliminates situations where clusters of specials turn into full resupplies.
I think there is a fundamental problem with Auras across all classes. They should be impactful, and desirable, and create a strong reason to stay together. All these auras that are “+5% to some stat that is imperceptible in regular gameplay” offer none of that and should be changed. Survivalist was fairly on point when it came to that. It made an obvious difference. The only other aura in the game that is as noticeable and meaningful is Zealot’s Beacon of Purity. Every other aura besides those two could be removed from the game and I would never notice it in gameplay.
Nonsense, OfB is goated no matter how you’re killing things. What you’ve said also assumes this nerf is enough for you to actually run out of ammo, which is only gonna happen with a select few very ammo inefficient guns.
“Heavily nerfed” yes but relative to an objectively absurd amount of extra ammo, down to just a whole whole heap of extra ammo. Again cooldown should be shorter but I refuse to be gaslit that survivalist is somehow bad now or that there isn’t plenty of ammo to go around.
I just don’t like their balancing methodology which starts with a heavy nerf to a fundamental part of an archetype’s core identity (veteran = shooting). If they want to experiment with forcing a complete different playstyle, make a new archetype.
Or don’t release a half baked game, have a placeholder system where you try to play off as being different to a previous system but wasn’t, establish a gameplay identity for one of the archetypes with the placeholder and then go for core features with a sledgehammer when you want to pivot into more diverse playstyles.
Numerically, it can be played around, can be worked around, but it’s a bitter feeling to have something like that nerfed that hard.
You made it sound like shooty Vet is super bad now but it is really not tbh, unless you use gun with really bad ammo economy you still get to shoot a lot, just not literally have so much ammo to dump into horde like before.
Still, they really should release the change along the weapon balance patch so the ammo economy doesn’t feel too bad on some gun. Unless they want to gauge how some weapon perform with post-nerf Survivalist first before they decide to adjust stuff.
Yes, in isolation it feels like a horrible change, agree on that.
Fatshark would have to buff Fire Team and Close and Kill so much for them to be competitive with pre-penance Survivalist that they would break the balance of the game completely if they took this advice. Imagine if Close and Kill gave 20% extra movement speed and we could still bring a vet with pre-penance Survivalist. Everyone would be completing Damnations in 20 minutes or less. I can’t even imagine what Heresy and Malice would look like with those auras. Nobody would have to loot after finding crates. I’m not going to tell you I think the change was perfect but I will tell you it’s not the end of the Veteran at all.
Yeah if you wanted to make the other 2 auras “competitive” with pre nerf survivalist you’d end up with easily the 3 strongest auras in the game all on Vet. It would be silly. That isn’t to say the other auras don’t need work, but making them competitive without being bonkers is at least somewhat reasonable now post nerf.
Personally I wish they’d rework it so ammo regen is a passive just for Vet and removed from the aura pool. It’d be much more manageable to balance if it wasn’t restocking the whole team. It could afford to be more powerful in that case, which would let shooty Vets do the blap blap without also facilitating stupid stuff like Rumbler spam. Seems like you could reasonably please everyone at least passably with this approach. Would still potentially cause some issues with shared guns being feast or famine on ammo depending on whether or not you’re playing Vet but I think that’s a much more manageable balance issue than pre nerf survivalist.
If the choice was between a cooldown and a % nerf, I’d pick the %.
Cooldowns on passives like this just feel like a game is screwing you out of something every time you perform the action that’s supposed to proc the passive. Shock Trooper feels bad for the same reason.
TBH this change has just turned me into an ammo goblin, whereas before the patch I was perfectly comfortable sharing the pickups around.
No way its huge, i just showed you the pattern. every other weapon in game benefits 1%, unlike plasma 0.5-0.6% , depending on 25% Ammo Modifier.
This has been a rumor for long time, it does not have infinite cleave (there is even a guy who did post videos in the forums before). it have huge cleave against certain targets true, yet only the small ones, which needs to be lined up, pretty much impossible, as shotgunners. the best i could do is 8 in single shot, because of AI path finding they always spread out , so they would swarm you and shot you, and that’s the only target you can cleave effectively. not even against poxhounds you get infinite cleave.
This will be my last post, as its drifting off main topic.
yeah we got grenade regen on specialists nerfed due to “nuke” introduced for ogyrn, really weird, lets nerf vet because other classes are exploiting his passives.
‘Out for Blood’ & ‘Marksman’s Focus’ are noticeable buffs, thankfully they cared, yet still Marskmen (Left Tree) still very niche and hard to manage, and forces players to specific weapon and playstyle that is counter teamwork. As for Executionar Stance cooldown, it dont really matter much as the ability is way to weak, as it gives less damage buff than the keystones of same lane.
How is what I’m suggesting a nerf to Vet? If anything I’m suggesting he personally should get more ammo for himself than currently. In fact I’d be fine with it being a class passive and not even costing a talent point. You’d have another aura on top of ammo regen. How is that a bad deal for Vet?
Also It would be nice to change talent “Demolition team”, so the grenade is given to all teammates in Coherency when requirements are met. Or maybe make it an aura and turn Scavenger into a passive?
I don’t know, just thinking…
Why do people keep posting this? Why is there the assumption that this change was about internal balance between the 3 Vet auras, rather than it being a game-wide balance to ammo economy?
The other 2 auras could literally not exist, Survivalist could have been Vet’s only aura, and Survivalist would STILL have needed to be adjusted to not make ammo-management redundant.
Stop being a baby.
Learn to manage your ammo and you’ll be fine. You don’t need a crutch, you’re just afraid to let go of it.
Its not a crutch, its a shovel.
And I prefer my Kantrael 1a, and will continue to do so. I’m a Guardsman, not whatever the heck everyone else wants the Veteran to be.
I manage my ammo perfectly well, I have to since I use the bolter.
Vet continues to lose its gun-user identity, in its ranged combat tree, and no one gives a crap because “lmao melee.” It’s irritating.
I can actually see how someone might argue that Survivalist needed tweaking when they play auric histg and the game just craps 20 elites at you per second, but this wasn’t the way to fix it. It drags the aura closer to the other two without actually making the other two worth picking. At this point it might be better to just make the node +5% crit chance (still ass, but then the aurics can stop crying) and then buff 25% ammo back to 40%.
Seriously. Let Vet be a ranged specialist. Even before this nerf, when you stacked vets in a team, it didn’t feel distinct. I played all-vet games before the class overhaul and those felt noticeably different. Back then it was psyker who got shafted all the time, in terms of identity - now its vet who’s getting their vibes stripped away.
I want a class which can consistently 1-shot-headshot non-carapace specials with a Kantrael 1a regardless of blessings, on Damnation, with the correct talent tree build. Vet doesn’t fill that niche on psykanium testing last I checked.
Sorry for not being clear enough.
I meant Fatshark approach, into vet.
other classes exploits vet passives, and vet eats the nerf.
Have you played Doom with unlimited bfg ammo? Pretty easy counterpoint you kinda just left up there. It’s relative to the strength of the weapon. Ammunition is a throttle.
I will also say i take less damage in melee than I do in ranged in darktide. I don’t understand peoples hesitation to pull out their knife and stab a scab. Everyone has some pretty amazing melee capabilities. Although I’m a little sad psyker doesnt really have a melee spec. Scriers gaze is about as good as it gets for that.
