Kills groups faster
slaughters elites
has a much longer efective range and can be used at long.
gets fire on target in a fraction of the time
High mobility
doesnt blind your own team
doesnt provide cover for enemy ranged
doesnt stop the team moving forward
do actually have to aim
now ill admit im biased i really dislike the flamers , or at least how most people use them and i primarily want less people to sue it but i do genuinely believe since the last patch the shredder autopistol is a huge step up in all regards
blaze away+pinning fire (or whatever you like)
+dam to unarmoured and flak
i think its contender for best ranged weapon in game right now.
It’s true.
People keep getting mad about their clown roleplay weapon being worse than a newly buffed, bugged(pinning fire stacking up on the same enemy) and overtuned pistol.
You don’t need unarmored, flak is a maybe(everything dies way too fast or are sent to the ground due to way too much stagger to notice the difference). I have 25/25 flak/unyielding.
+unyielding can make autopistol a decent monster dps weapon.
Autopistol also makes you run fast so it’s a far better pair to trashhammer and crusher(the weapon), both of those weapons being able to knock away bulwark shield to instantly swap to autopistol for easy kill.
I will also take autopistol over flamer any day of the week but I do need to qualify that statement somewhat.
that is at least as much to do with my enjoyment as the actual effectiveness
I honestly think it slaps way harder on Psyker and after playing it on them a bunch I struggle to go back to using it on Zealot. For Zealot I really struggle to go past the superb Vraks III or ol faithful agrip brauto.
If we’re comparing effectiveness I think there are 2 pretty major factors you’re missing here. Firstly flamer scales with density to a degree autopistol with its fixed cleave (even boosted to 2.5x by blessings) cannot, though admittedly it’s pretty rare to be faced with the kind of density where that actually matter. Secondly, and this is huge, flamer does its job with only good stats and is not blessing dependent. The difference between an autopistol with pinning + blaze and one without is absolutely night and day. Getting two specific blessings can be an incredible pain so I would blame absolutely nobody for being put off autopistol by this.
Hadn’t occurred to me this was a bug but just reread the description and I see your point.
Zealot ultspam scales with density too(cleave more enemy → more ult refund on crit → spam ult every 2-3 hits); flamer “build” often just don’t have that, even if they have that - they’re using a ranged weapon to do something melee already does, and it also denies melee hits to bleeding enemy(duh, flamer killed them by fire) so teammates have a harder time meleeing the enemy.
Boltgun with its aoe on kill + penetration also scales with density.
Until zealot feats…etc. actually apply to flamer(+damage, crit/bleed - change the feat to apply to melee hits on burning enemies or something, ult refund on crit…etc.) beside activating 50% toughness DR randomly(not sure if low hp aspd feat applies but that’s not doing much anyway), flamer remains a mediocre at best weapon for people who just suck at melee.
Sure that does assume crit build though. Won’t comment on that because I’ve never liked crit build and rarely run it.
Couldn’t you make the same argument about autopistol somewhat? I definitely notice its range limitation and clearing maniacs and mixed hordes generally is where I notice it shine the most. I also wouldn’t entirely discounting trivialising melee engagements to just hold LMB. That definitely makes your life a lot easier. Anyway I don’t really want to argue about Flamer even more, the lack of needing blessings on flamer compared to autopistol is a much bigger issue for your average player to my mind. Regardless I prefer autopistol anyway now I have a good one.
Valid point for snipers but can’t think of much else that’s relevant. Autopistol gets pretty damn inefficient against most things at medium to long range.
Autopistol absolutely toasts flamer at dealing with maniac armour type at any range. No arguments there.
Yeah muties too. Plus you have BB for crushers, Bulwarks (BB → pistol swap on bulwarks is intensely enjoyable), and snipers, and warp siphon is multiplicative with power bonuses so… Yeah it’s really cracked on Psyker IMO.
I’m also a degenerate who runs +maniac perk on autopistol to just super delete maniac enemies. I have no regrets about this, hitting the delete button on those guys is fantastic.
With pinning fire + blaze you have up to 2.5x damage AND cleave. It becomes extremely efficient to fire into density and as Comrade said you don’t fire it at everything. Just at scary clumps and maniacs mainly and for both of these again you end up getting amazing damage/ammo spent.
i don’t know if the blessings are so important.
I have a really efficient (since the patch that gave some love to it) autopistol.
However, I don’t use blaze…
I use Powderburn + Pinning fire.
They really are important IMHO (but I’m no vet expert), I got super lucky with a lower level one AND an upgrade on my vet. Might be a
while before Ranald gives me another upgrade…
Sorry guys but no its not really as good as Flamer for pairing with Thunder Hammer.
The point of using Flamer with Thunder Hammer is that you hose off all the trash around the big Elites so you can use your Thunder Hammer Charged Heavy attacks. It works really well for that because it penetrates through everything. (Exception Bulwork Shields). Auto Pistol doesn’t. So you still end up with a lot of odd trash mobs body blocking your Charged Heavies.
A lot of it has to do with the fact the clip runs out before you can kill enough of them.
That said, it is a very worthwhile gun now with those specific blessings, and does a pretty decent job. It’s not the woefully inadequate POS it was with those, and I would actually use this paired with other weapons now.
