Guns fine but the drawtime / ready delay is really just annoying on Higher havocs, can we discuss shortening it?
OR
The melee is strong but needs aoe.
4 Likes
its melee is already very good but i agree equip time is a bit much
2 Likes
The increased aoe on melee means you dont have to switch means you dont have to switch back to dispatch a gunner/special and suffer the draw delay.
The equip time alone on this thing gets players killed constantly.
the 2nd Mark is the worst offender, longest charge time and worst melee, but if you skimp on the damage the other two are much better.
Also fun mod for it Helbore passive charge at Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Nexus - Mods and community
They nerfed the attack speed on the bayonet, it’s hardly ever worth using for more than a couple hits now.
Why have a melee attack on your gun when you already have a dedicated melee weapon? I never understood that.
Mainly not needing to deal with the re-equip time 
4 Likes
Helbore greatly benefits from Right side or Left side talents perks. But given the teamwork meta of most players not looking to increase others strengths and mitigate their weaknesses, Helbore builds are in a bad place.
The right tree alleviates a lot of Helbore prblems with more than useable melee, Invis to buy time, and -aggro for followup shots/get your team killed because they probably can;t copewith the extra aggro because they dont work as a group using the tools at their disposal to survive. The right side also gets reload speed, extra toughness regen for both melee and ranged, and importantly a 25% drawtime increase, however these talents are not worth it to make the weapon useable because its main drawback that these alleviates are solved by more ‘META’ choices like Shout and the damage and genera survivability perks found elsewhere.
The Left side will pretty much solve all issues, again similar to the right. You will be able to kill anything reliably like a Boltgun or Plasmagun but you will lose burst not from damage itself but the window of action required to simply play the game.
I have tested in Pox Gas games in narrow corridors with Infero Psyker and Shield Ogryn and they could buy keep anything off me to even get off a few Helbore shots. Again, while the left side of the tree is literally some of the best damage dealing in the game, it is unusable because there arent enough ways/team awareness to keep thigns off the Vet fr long enough. Again, this is solved by taking meta survivibility talents.
The weapon has a melee function so it doesnt need to swap and go through the draw animation. The talent to reduce this impacts builds further down their talent picks with regards to the current meta (both of the game and of how players are choosing to play the game) regarding surv. Which Helbore needs because it does more than enough damage to ALL targets, it just doesnt normally have the space or time to do this.
Relying on teammates to work as a team is not a thing anymore as this was hijacked a few years ago and voices explaining different metas are drowned out.
As such, Helbore needs buffs to itself and/or the tree to make it useable. Thankfully, as an ‘aim’ weapon it is naturally gated and balance changes can consider this.
I dont think there is any harm to drasically shorten the drawtime on all, increase the base charge speed on the heavy Mk, and change the weapon swap talent to a mini Shout - every 10th melee attack staggers nearby enemies on the same level as the Blessing which should not ignore stagger immunity. This would buy Helbore builds a nice little window, soemtimes (as it should be) and buff the Stealth playstyle further. This side of the tree should be one that gets the most out of suppression, due to its synergy with braced autoguns, which can already deal useful ranged suppression damage, on top of the Stealth reveal stagger which can stagger everything. While this them implies a team synergy/meta window to utilize it, that is pretty much a separate issue.
Ironically, I feel adding this ability into the melee side ofthe tree would go a long way to making the side of th tree more survivable, and helping out Helbore builds. Hell, Maybe it to apply to ranged shots every 10 shots (not seconds?) so SMG builds really have a use, Shotguns get a buff, and Recons could really go ham. Thisis considering the CURRENT tree, as taking this would deny a lto of meta pathways.
Or just give Helbores the Suppression Blessing. They do enugh dmage, they need time and space to do it in lieu of teammates providing that.
Could the melee, if charged, do an aoe stagger? I imagine your sensng the theme Im gonig for to make this side of the tree more used.
As for the Exec Stance side of things, its more than useable, but giving up Shout is too costly. So give that keystone cluster some CC or put it on the Helbore? In current Havocs even every Helbore shot RELIABLY Suppresing (as in, ignoring immunity) everything in 1m would stil lnot be overpowered and really give a use to the weapon and its melee by corollary when your team is inevitably swamped because they dont stay packed when the hordes come. Again, I acknowledge that is a player issue that cannot be solved currently due to the consensus manipulation.
It’s pretty satisfying when there’s just one enemy bothering you and about to get the way of you shooting more. Sometimes I just like bullying 1 trash mob with bashes but a stab or two and dead with a range is just as humiliating for them heretics.
1 Like
Because Krieg roleplay immersion and shoving bayonet through heretic skull looks cool AF.
2 Likes
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