Seriously, I think bolter need to be nerfed

that’s actually a bug that was carried over from vt2

also, swift slaying isn’t taken just because the dps increase, but also because each hit generates career skill, as well as staggers, creating fewer openings for counterattack. People take swift slaying essentially for the same reason why they take brutal momentum, minus the skill gen.

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I originally thought (like during beta) the autopistol was supposed to have a near-instant suppression value, which would enable zealot to close in to melee on ranged threats. Turned out not to be super great at that, though it would make a lot more sense if that’s how it behaved.

I am in the same camp as you largely. I feel like the bolter itself is kinda fine. And i think you’re asking the right question and delivering the right answer.

The bolter is likely too strong against ogryns. But having run it on my zealot a bit lately even with pinning fire and rending: it definitely outperforms the thunder hammer but i kinda don’t want to nerf it anyway. It really seems, to me, that the biggest problem is as simpliv has pointed out.

A conversation came up between me and some friends and the best solution i heard floated was to do something about Sustained Fire. The best proposal i heard among several good ones was to change the reload mechanic from “instantly reload” to “reload 1 round on priority target kill” which would basically be charmed reload. There are advantages here; burst fire peak would be lower on the whole. But it also makes the bolter better at shooter duty. Thats a positive in some ways but its also a negative because being bad at large groups of shooters is one of its critical downsides. On zealot there’s good reasons not to take bolter because it is clunky and inefficient at numerous targets. But on vet its super strong due to class buffs and feats. Shattering impact and pinning fire are part of it for sure but not the whole story. Ultimately i think looking at sustained fire is more important than nerfing the weapon. Its not nearly as dominant even if it is powerful on zealot. BUFF THUNDER HAMMER.

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Wrong.

For as long as we have crafting locks which make DT a gacha game, asking for nerfs is unreasonable.

Gacha game, gacha rules.

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This isn’t a gacha game, you aren’t limited on resources like a gacha is, those have stamina systems to prevent you from playing 24/7 and getting everything you could ever want. You can grind like hell here and get decent loot to replace any “bricked” weapon if a blessing gets nerfed, but that’s not what anyone is asking for. Nerfed does not mean not viable, blessings should be brought in line with other blessings in the game or the game will get too easy.

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Yes that is what some people are asking for and with our current playerbase nerfing fun weapons is a terrible idea.

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Give Pinning Fire and Slaughterer blessings on everything (or bring alternatives).

It’s obvious that weapons without power/damage boosts are weaker than those with them.

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Nerfs are sometimes necessary but way more things need buffs instead.

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Sometimes maybe - but in DTs current state no. No weapon - and certainly not the bolter - is so overperforming, that nerfs would be necessary.
A friend of mine who played DT far more casually then me was really appalled by the flamer and powersword nerf - two of his favourite weapons. Now he only plays DT to accompany me if I ask him to.

I absolutely agree with you on this one.

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The powersword is still a mess.
The flamer needs its magazine size returned but not its supply. I used it today and its still amazing.

But I digress. There are softer handed ways to tackle the bolter. As good as it is, though, it does have drawbacks. Especially in the hands of a skilled user that knows where to stand. But i maintain its truely horrible highs are because the vet eliminates so many of the balancing weaknesses built into the gun. Not because the gun itself is horrendously OP. At worse its too good against ogryn and especially carapace/crushers. But thats it.

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I really wouldn’t call it better than Psyker’s Force Swords, which can do “miracles” even without the special attack.

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This makes absolutely no sense.

Blessings do not stand by themselves.
They come in combination with a weapon that uses them.
A blessing increasing the power of a weapon by a lot (for example pinning fire on the autopistol) is fine, when the weapon is pretty weak without the blessing (like the auto pistol).

Having a weapon balanced around it‘s power with strong blessings simply means that the weapon requires more time investment by the player, to be in a good state, than a weapon that is good by default and has access to weaker blessings.

While i am against having 2/2 „mandatory“ blessings for each weapon, i have no problem at all with 1/2 „mandatory“ blessing for some weapons (like the stronger +power blessings).

It is completely fine for certain blessings to be very strong (much stronger than others) and to be basically a mandatory pick. This is a valid way of balancing weapons in a specific way that could not be achieved by simply changing the weapon‘s own stats directly.

Before you say that strong blessings are bad for build diversity, no they are not.
There are enough different weapons in the game, that there is no need to have a huge amount of diversity when it comes to the most used perks and blessings on individual weapons.

There are no weapons in the game right now, that dominate so hard that they trivialize the game.
Some weapons are stronger than others, which is completely fine. Not all weapons need to be equally viable on all difficulties.

Some weaker weapons should be brought up in power, either directly or by buffing their blessings.

The way I used the flamer before and after the nerfI honestly didn’t notice the nerf at all. That’s not the point. My friend did and it drove him away.

For example I think the Antax V vastly outperforms any other melee weapon except maybe the Ilisi. I find this mainly annoying as it’s a boring steel axe outperforming all the iconic chain and power weapons of 40K. Yet I don’t want it nerfed as I know others enjoy using it. I just use my 40K melee options and let others have fun they way they want.

Wouldn‘t mind a general chainweapon buff though.

Hm - I always read the suggestion sustained fire made the bolter op due to insta reload - honestly this promotes an extremely ammo inefficient playstyle and doesn’t allow the full potential of the bolter to shine - that would be the extra damage against Ogryns feat (forgot the name) - but if you pick this you dedicate your build to monster slaying at the cost of being less capable at killing shooters which is the veterans true main job. If you dedicate your build in such a way it’s ok elites and specials die quickly - that’s the only real contribution you’re going to make.

I usually go lasgun and only when we are 3 or 4 vets in the premission lobby I switch to bolter/plasma assuming other will handle the shooter mobs (we really need loadout info in the lobby!)

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And here we go again

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Pinning fire is crazy strong, too strong.

Forgot the most important point here, too:
Faster attack speed means interrupting the enemy more. I tried several times to run certain alternative setups and some of the lower attack speed weapons are too slow to chain attacks.
Skaven Slave Rats will interrupt your combo by having their attacks go through because their wind-up animation is faster than your wind-down + wind-up animation.

That always the main thing for me to pick that Blessing. You literally cannot play Cataclysm without it.

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And here is a problem, when there is a bolter vet it feels 3 other people just play as supports.

Add here you can take rend on bolter, the weapon that got anti armor damage by itself already. Bolter was much more balanced before blessings buff patch.

Or maybe not, almost nothing to loose, 3k online.

Yeah, cause they nerfed in a way noone was suggesting, lol. They totally ignored all feedback and did in their own bad way.

If only system was like 1 offensive blessing and 1 utility blessing. Or blessings have their drawbacks, like it works with attachements in any cod game

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I have never had a bolter vet in the team, where i felt this way with any of the 4 classes.

If the bolter vet takes care of most of the ogryn enemies, i would say that they are simply doing their job.

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I had a suggestion thread about such Risk-Reward Blessings before. But it got really mixed reception. People love their +1-Power-Ups.

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Eh…i dunno it reminds me when Sienna’s beam stuff was broken and probably could stagger even chaos gods. Like bolter vet can push through ogryns and specials blob so fast like noone else can. And on monstrous specials condition bolter vet is almost mandatory to have in your team. Bolter ammo restrictions on vet almost doesn’t work as counterbalance when there is so much specials/elites, it’s kinda paradoxical.

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