Remove Inferno Staff from the game

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
22

“Stop begging for nerfs to everything fr”
Hey man, wanted to say before I dig into it I am a big fan of your multicolor shirt thongs and your stream personality.

First of all, Nerfs/balancing are quintessential to the game and its longevity. The biggest problem with Darktide in general right now is the lack of actual system fixes and balance QOL changes. I get you have fun running the same 3 builds in every game, while your team also runs those same builds most of the time. Requiring or refusing to play without a few of the giga meta things on your team is just as elitist as hating on said meta stuff. There are multiple clips of you whining about what he or she or they bring in your games, or outright blaming a match loss on others. It is cool you get to whine and complain about what people play, but when people point out the issues with some of the balance you sit there trying to defend the other side of it. I get winning runs is the most important thing to you and a lot of people here, you have every right to want that and you are able to have that perspective. That said, end of the day this is supposed to be a team orientated skill based improvement game, that is the core gameplay loop. Players should be able to interact with the game, and have the classes be on a relatively equal playing ground. when I load in with 3 other players into a match unless I know them I don’t try to ruin their experience by speedrunning to the end, why? Because it ruins the core gameplay loop for others, if I want to do that I should take it solo, the same logic applies to completely busted/bugged/overpowered stuff, sure messing with things for a time is fine, but the game has been in this state for 2+ years. There are broken aspects or areas where others classes shine sure, but end of the day 90% of this games loop is killing things, you know what isn’t fun? a huge shotgunner/elite wave dying in 1.2 seconds to Inferno staff, a non-ammo consuming, perma usage, limitless cooldown, infinite cleave weapon. Oh? Ogryn threw his one time nuke until ammo pickup to kill that same wave? Well thats a resource he had to decide to use, and that is better design.

“It’s you problem”
If multiple players are having the same experience, it’s not a “you problem,” it’s a design issue. If the point of a matchmaking PVE game is to have several random individuals load in and screen wipe the map on the hardest difficulty why not just have unlimited RPGS on Hive scum? Or how about unlimited ammo in general? What is the point? I shouldn’t have my fun or other players fun ruined because Fatshark refuses to nerf something because of pushback from their asia market.

  1. “Just do damage yourself”
    “You can’t ‘just do damage’ if things are dying before you can interact.”
    You say you just use your Paultato build (sick plug homie) yeah man, just walk in front of 40 maulers with specialist behind it and and shooters around you, when I the supreme being can just cast my Bubble Ward of Protection, followed by my Staff of destruction and Fire scream abilities and laugh as I screen wipe everything within 7 seconds. Like you have to be delusional to not think Inferno needs a massive hit.

  2. “If you aren’t having fun with it, so (no)one else should?/It’s fun”
    Yeah, it’s fun for some of the person using it. The question is whether it’s fun for everyone else in the lobby. People constantly cope on this point, if you have a remote shred of intelligence you can clearly see the over and underperformers in this game regardless of individual skill. I am fine with there being tools or things in the game that allow lower skill level players to feel strong, but there is a problem when there is no skill investment or game to be played. Stand still in hallway right click then left click, then press F loop, no dodging, no movement, no kiting, and no mechanics. This is the problem with things like inferno staff.

    1. ”It’s a fun staff to use and makes you feel like a powerful space wizard. COOL!”
      Go play on a lower difficulty if you want to “feel powerful” I am not saying we need to be giga weak, I just think its obvious when something ruins the overall gameplay for most players because you use an over powered tool that the devs are too afraid to change even though they have acknowledged it but because they took too long to address it and people are used to it they get insane pushback and death threats.

    4.”Play some havoc moebians or rampage and it will take forever without the flamer.”
    I do this all the time, and there are a million ways to circumvent this without inferno or the flamer, check out my videos if you don’t believe me, it is so frustrating that you don’t even know the amount of ways you can deal with high density hordes without only these two tools, it speaks volumes.

    1. ”Smite just needs a smaller cone-shaped area of effect in front of it to make it more interesting and less annoying to use.”
      No.. Smite needs a lot of changes, and this would be a fine banaid but solves nothing for the issues, players would just turtle and put themselves in corners more often(counter productive if you want to actually be good at the game).

    Psyker to me, could potentially be the coolest most dope fun class in the game but it has so many annoying issues.

I don’t want them to kill psyker or nerf it to the ground, but there are so many systemic issues with the class, there is so little skill floor to the class its painful. I could list 100+ changes to the class but I will focus here on the inferno staff. The inferno staff has no ammo constraints, etc, while I hate Zealots flamer for most of the same reasons at least it has that, but the list goes on. So there has to be a real trade off, perils of the warp is a nothing burger and most of the things in the tree either ignore it or circumvent it completely. Some changes they could make are easy and don’t ruin what it is or should be used for, and why a lot of players find it “fun”. I am fine with it being able to mop up most mixed hordes/chaff, fine by me.

Lower dot threshold/amount on elites (Soulblaze), Limit the amount of cleave it has vs elites, i.e if there are 20 Ragers/20/20 Maulers/gunners in front of you set a cap on how many entities it can impacted at once. I have many more but these are just a few examples.

anyway pooplaazyz I love you man, no hate.

23

It’s both Psyker and Carapace. It’s night and day playing with and without a psyker. Without a psyker regular elites actually survive long enough to be a threat, that giant pack of light/medium elites don’t magically implode after a couple of seconds due to a chain reaction from Perilous Combustion. That gunner fireline can pose a real threat. Trash hordes last long enough and have the chance to build up to be a hinderance if no one took a cleave weapon.

And if a psyker is around, everything but Crushers dies (let’s be honest, no one really does the SB stack->Uncanny Strike stack trick). So you spam Crushers. Players can’t easily die to Crushers due to yellow so you spam more. Players are killing Crushers and other elites too quickly so you increase their HP.

Oops, now you made it so you need psyker with purg to kill everything and Uncanny weapons to kill Crushers and everything else sucks.

I’m assuming the player is also playing a diif they find challenging. A H40 player will just murder everything in regular diff regardless of build.

25

I completely agree. What worries me is that so many people call for massive nerfs or even suggest removing a weapon entirely, like the OP did, without really thinking about why it became the meta in high difficulties like Havoc. They don’t seem to care about finding a balance that keeps the weapon viable.

Also, like you mentioned, we need proper changes for Carapace and Psykers at the same time. But looking at Fatshark’s track record with balance patches over the last three years, it’s hard to have much hope for that. Personally, I think fixing the game-breaking bugs and optimization issues is way more urgent than messing with the balance right now.

26

Smite needs a total rework as it’s the most boring Blitz in the entire game.

Game should never be balanced around Havoc. Purgatus is silly strong.

27

Yeah i’m not gonna call out his skill, but the ego and blame game is off the charts.

They need to acknowledge it first and that hasn’t happened yet!

You can tell by having Inferno and blight in the Havoc rotation right now, which is at any given time one chem nade away from telling you how much they care about performance

28

Need to put this on a placard.

Similar situation happened in VT2 where horde clearing weapons like the flamer were all low tier, temp health stealing trash until Fatshark added wall to wall hordes from all directions.

Then flamers and grudge-raker’s perception changed in this order: good → OP. Because whoever was clearing hordes had a massive over representation in the score screen despite having the lowest elite, special, or boss damage. It still happens with people occasionally insisting actual trash like cleavers, twin-linked stubbers, heavy swords, and ect are actually really powerful OP weapons.

HOWEVER! There is something that needs to be talked about with this staff tho.:index_pointing_up::nerd_face:

A reworked m1 to be a different attack that did raw damage and minimal Dot stacking would go a long way to improving the inferno staff experience. It is problematic to left click down an armor horde and then switch to force sword to apply uncanny stacks on all of them. You never see that outside of Havoc, but it still needs to be addressed. Would not want the m1 changed to the same ball shot the other staffs have, but an arcing fireball attack with some range so the left click gains new utility while not easily exploited by uncanny strike would be my ideal.

29

Will it? We played multiple Moebian + rampage Havoc maps yesterday. No psyker at all. The other zealot who picked flamer, did maybe 200-300 kills with it, no brittleness. Those were very average map runtimes.

30

Fatshark has had a solution to the staff problem since Vermintide 2, just refuses to use it. Just make venting cause self-damage. Then you can simply tweak peril/toughness generation values so that the Psyker can’t just blast all day every day for free without exposing themselves to severe harm and bam, problem solved. Addresses infinite Smite, Inferno Staff, Voidblast stagger spam, everything. We already had this resolved with Bardin’s Drakegun and Sienna’s Flamestorm Staff, but just like blocking when typing in chat, Fatshark had a problem already solved and unsolved it.

31

An accurate assessment of the most powerful ranged dps build in the game. I would wager it’s, next to weapons which basically “ignore” armour, the main reason why Havoc difficulty scaling has been turned into such a clown car experience.

Instead of being nerfed, Fatshark has doubled down and allowed Perilous Combustion to proc from SB kills. Has this been ever reversed? It has been almost a year.

Don’t worry guys, I’m sure if Fatshark introduces few more colours of the rainbow, balance will be finally “fixed”.

I actually enjoyed myself playing Havoc yesterday, and then realised that’s because we had no Rotten Armour in the mix.

32

remove all lamer weapons so bad players have to learn to melee

33

No hate and then

  • You say you just use your Paultato build (sick plug homie)
  • Like you have to be delusional
  • if you have a remote shred of intelligence
  • Go play on a lower difficulty
  • it is so frustrating that you don’t even know the amount of ways you can deal with high density hordes without only these two tools, it speaks volumes.

And then you guys act surprised when nobody beyond your high hour circles cares about your opinions.

Most of your videos you play people like Dorn, a.a, Bloodinsnow, so content creation circles? So it’s weird to hear you say something like this:

when I load in with 3 other players into a match unless I know them I don’t try to ruin their experience by speedrunning to the end, why?

You’d understand if you actually played more public matches. The randoms are struggling with or without stuff like Inferno. The game is balanced around slightly above average players. And those said players do not clear the game by themselves. Even in inferno lobbies 90% of the time you have specials, elites, hordes to kill.

1% of the players who clear whole screen by themselves AND also never, ever go down is an anomaly. You don’t balance the game around people playing perfectly at the best of their abilities. Otherwise games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring would literary be unbeatable. They don’t balance their hardest bosses around never getting hit. The game’s just better designed because all loadouts have weaknesses and different weapons might excel at different bosses. Darktide, weapon balance aside, is not designed like that. So there will always be meta OP weapons which are better, unless you just make the weapons near the same with a different weapon skin.

34

Thank you for all the replies, some of theses are really good. I’ll try to reply to all of them after the stream or live. :heart_eyes:

35

One look at your post history is enough to conclude what kind of player you are.

Literary can’t go two posts on the forums without skill issue’ing someone.

this weird ego about himself

Ironic.

37

People on these forums claim toxic elitist players are boogeyman.

I’m no one, just someone who likes to equalize the discussion when people dogpile someone for not wanting the game to become their perfect version of Vermintide 3: Darktidening.

The fact that you call Fuuplayz skilless is funny to me. I’ve played H40 with him, he’s a decent player. But I guess to you guys unless you live inside the game and use Heavy Sword to solo H40, it’s a bad player.

Btw he’s one of the few content creators that I see creating public lobbies in Havoc on the regular. Makes you think.

38

Remove dueling sword from the game first.

39

If it is like venting PG, then this is a joke.
It should impact your health… then. And changing that on PG was a big mistake. You can vent the entire mission without problem.

I would really prefer an exhaustion mechanic where maintaining peril would increase the exhaustion bar and force you to not use your psychic power for like 45s.

41

“Most of your videos you play people like Dorn, a.a, Bloodinsnow, so content creation circles? So it’s weird to hear you say something like this:”

You did this weird rigmarole to a.a too, you are kinda cringe homie. I play with pubs all the time, when I make “content” I like to have voices/people to bounce off of. Most of the most dope moments I have had are playing with pubs/meeting new people, legit everyone of the people I “make” content with were pubs to me at one point.

”No hate and then”

yes bro, your big brain missed the first few jabs where I was obviously hating on him (whoosh) I do like Fuplaayz, but I think people I like can post dog water bud.

”You’d understand if you actually played more public matches. The random are struggling with or without stuff like Inferno. The game is balanced around slightly above average players. And those said players do not clear the game by themselves. Even in inferno lobbies 90% of the time you have specials, elites, hordes to kill.”

3 times out of 4 the pubs I get do dumb stuff but we win and they do fine, the one off is some person trying to force a havoc 40 when they shouldn’t be playing and its a hard time doing a trio/duo sometimes. Hard nutt here, but the truth needs to be said, stop thinking that higher difficulties exist for all players. There are game modes and difficulties for all player skill levels in this game. You should not expect that many people to be 1 playing regularly, or 2 completing Havoc 40’s. Idk if I am old or what, but I remember when games that had harder difficulties and I couldn’t get better enough or invest enough time in I just lowered the difficulty and played to my hearts content and moved on. I didn’t moan and whinge about how I should be able to beat the hardest mode, and that if the devs touch anything I used to crutch on I will be omega pissed. I did a few times have my older bothers help me beat certain things, that was dope. The game is also balanced around Havoc which is a mistake imo. It should be balanced around Auric Mael/Auric probs.

”AND also never, ever go down You don’t balance the game around people playing perfectly at the best of their abilities.”

This is such a stupid saying, I play all the time with some of the best Darktide players and all of them go down, its normal and happens such a stupid saying. No one plays perfectly always, that is what is dope about darktide. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and just barking in the wind (get it?)

”games like Dark Souls and Elden Ring would literary be unbeatable. They don’t balance their hardest bosses around never getting hit.”

No one is asking for this, I didn’t say this. I am not asking for all players to be set to 1 hp. You are legit a brainlet. I, in simple terms, don’t like when the games balance is ignored because the fan base revolts. It is dumb. I never said or implied Darktide will be perfectly balanced. If it was perfectly balanced the game would suck, but there still needs to be balance changes. You need weapons to perform in different ways, niches exist and some things are better vs others. I said in my reply some form of low skill/easier weapons need to be consistently strong to help out newer/improving players. Consistently strong doesn’t mean it needs to be a brain off everything dies. The game has a loop, it has mechanics, anything that allows you to ignore the base fundamentals or mechanics of the game for giga long periods of time is not healthy or good for the game.

42

They struggle because they’re in out of their depth and are unable to clear high difficulties without invalidating as many mechanics as possible

I don’t think it’s insane to say that slightly above average players shouldn’t be able to clear the highest difficulty in a game with 45 of them

43

The more you act like this, the longer it will take the changes you desire so much to occur.

And I hope Fatshark truly reads these forums to see true colors of your circles.

yes bro, your big brain missed the first few jabs where I was obviously hating on him (whoosh) I do like Fuplaayz, but I think people I like can post dog water bud.

Chill out with your frat culture speak. Dissing someone and then saying JK doesn’t make you sound any smarter, especially if you’re old enough to have a family.

You did this weird rigmarole to a.a too, you are kinda cringe homie.

Cringe for calling people out who mostly play in premades of high skilled players, but claim they know what the game needs for the rest of the playerbase. Yeah sure.

44

Idk about you but I find the very people youre talking about in party finder pretty often, its how ive played most of my games with them