Psyker Psykinectic needs some buffs

+1

exactly that

plus some other stuff regarding psyker weapons.

  • all staffs secondary are pointless without warp furry to make em work since cast times to apply meaningful effects are far too long, and force swords require deflector to make em useful or make sense, both should be a default and not a blessing (or just have staffs cast times buffed in general and keep the warp fury blessing while force swords should always have a build-in deflector).
  • both force sword and staff should have the same peril passive quelling as none force weapons do, in fact it would even make more sense to have em passively quell better than none force weapons and have it scaling with quell speed modifier, its just silly to run around with a book or medpack in hands to passively quell faster while keeping up with the teams pace or to use none psyker weapons just so you have something to properly quell with.
  • surge and trauma staffs cast times are too long even with warp furry to have acceptable trauma size and lightning dmg.
  • trauma should have bigger epicenter scaling more with blast radius modifier or get rid of epicenter and apply its dmg to the whole circle.
  • surge should have its chain lightning hit some more targets since its meant for crowd control and far more targets when spooling up longer by scaling with spooling time.
  • surge needs some dmg buff in general so its not completely useless against hordes but instead just less effective than the other staffs since it should in turn crowd control more.
  • surge should cast its lighning through fences and alike just like purgatus does, it not a design decission but just doesnt because it doesnt find a target to lock on like when brainbursting because the fence is a wall in line of sight while a crate for example is not, so thats a flaw in programming fences and not the staff itself.
  • also since were on it of course all staffs primary attack should fire through fences just like guns do, same flaw as of how fences are designed as walls probably.
  • purgatus staff should spill flames for a bit longer per spoolings, and not only the flame spilling time should scale with spooling amount but also its dmg output in some way, like applying its souldblaze stacks faster the more you spooled up for example.
  • souldblaze stagger effect (talkin about targets burning from purgatus staff here, but the same should go for every souldblaze affected target in general too imo) should reflect that the target is actually burning so it shouldnt only have an initial stagger effect but a continuous ticking stagger effect. that way we could also get rid of the purgaus primary attack and instead have its same stagger on the initial secondary attacks flame on a short burst or an initial souldblaze hit and have a lesser stagger from later continuous ticks, so that way we could get the same kind of long range primary attack that the other saffs have and dont stand there useless till enemies get in range (at least as long as we dont have the same brainbursts casting speed and peril cost and quelling possibilities as we had in the first beta when the purgatus primary attacks downsides would have had less impact with how brainburst was back then, of course i would still want the souldblaze stagger effect changes then because they are f*ing burning and should reflect that by acting accordingly by constantly getting staggered with dmg ticks imo).
  • purgatus range should be slightly buffed to not make it feel inferior to the flamethrower in terms of range.
  • voidstrike should have its spool scaling effect buffed so its minimum spooling already starts where about one quarter spooling is now, meaning the secondary attack should even at minumum spooling always be stronger than the primary attack. right now you would pay more peril for a minimum spooling while the dmg is less than the primary atttacks peril cost and dmg, and theres almost no impact or staggering effect then either (even missing a proper impact sound effect), making it feel like a failed shot and wasted cast time (talkin ms here) and peril cost.
  • voidstrike beeing the single target dmg dealer staff and only a mediocre horde killer and crowd control choice because of its smaller explosion radius compared to the trauma staff it should have its max spooling dmg buffed to reflect that. maybe even using the the epicenter mechanic here instead of on the trauma staff would make more sense in that regard (even tho i wouldnt like it but it just would make more sense in the way both staffs roles are meant to be imo).
  • all staffs projectile speeds should be slightly faster.
  • all staffs projectiles should properly pierce through enemies hitting enemies behind, maybe using the hit mass mechanic like in cleaves. imo every projectile should use that hit mass mechanic anyway, and psyker weapons should do it even better.
  • force swords push attack should hit more targets at a wider angle, like a proper mini version of the push ulti, so it doesnt just feel like any weapons push with just more power but something special instead.
  • force swords special on none elite enemies should cleave instead of single target attack so it doesnt get you killed during animation time when you accidently hit a trash mob next to the elite you were trying to attack. also its dmg should at least get applied even if the animation gets interrupted, like when hittting a mutant that during the animation grabs you the dmg isnt applied because its applied at the very end of the animation and also the enemy should be stunned till the animation is finished. (goes for every other melee special attack that acts that way too like the chainsword)

also obviously all force weapon kills should grant a warp charge, including force sword special attacks, at the very least with a procc chance, that would help with a lot of problems here like so many in so many threads already mentioned.

and heres some idea about other melee weapons in general, why not have every melee weapon in a psykers hands have the deflector and push back and push attack that the force sword has? that way all the other melee weapons in the shop wouldnt look like useless crap when i only want psyker weapons in there and fatshark wouldnt have to design a dozen of other force sword variants to give us some choice when chosing a melee weapon.
after all the psyker does his force sword blocking animation and the push back and push attack with his hands rather than with the weapon itself anyway, its his power, not the swords. the only thing the sword itself does i think is the special attack, and even that kinda looks like hes doing it with his hands, applying force to the sword rather than activating it like the veteran does on his, so in theory probably every melee weapon in the psykers hands could become a force weapon with the force special attack instead of the weapons original special attack, which would be a lot of fun and open up choices. even tho that would make the original psyker force sword become not the weapon of choice anymore if it wouldn get something special to it instead or on top of that.

and another idea because i personally have a (rather small) problem with that but id undersand if nobody is feeling that way is, why the heck would i have to change to my hands in order to brainburst something? i have a free hand when using a sword, even when using a staff, why cant i cast without swapping to hands? would be so more fun to quickly (well or not so quickly considering the horrible brainburst cast times) pop a head by holding the brainburst key while having my sword in my hands or even while fighting. could get rid of the whole hands animation thing including quelling with hands while on slowmotion speed, or switching to hands for head popping and back to melee or staff to make use of quelling speed modifier when quelling after the popping.
but thats just me probably, just feels so awkward with all that switching when i use my hands for head popping anyway and feeling less immersive to switch and stand back for a moment during a fight, especially with all that switching problems or input lag or whatever that is.

and for the whole useless souldblaze topic and its failed skill synergy it could have had, i dont remember exactly because it been a while that i calculated and tested all souldblaze related stuff and i completely scrapped afterwards because it just doesnt work properly, so from my head i cant exactly tell which skill could have had such good synergy with which other as i could have told you during my testings, but i remember there were several skills that would have worked just fine when they had some percentages and timings buffed or other numbers and some criteria changed.
it also seems like its meant to be played in synergy with the purgatus staff since its fire dots are souldblaze stacks too, so in theory it could have been some really nice dot and flame builds, but imo playing any souldblaze build is completely poinless as it is right now. it has more problems and inconsistencies and design flaws than any other build and staff combination even tho it could have had the best synergy of em all.
if i dont do it maybe somebody should look into the soulblaze stuff and post flaws and suggestions here too, but seems everybody already gave up on that topic since its most broken.

in general psyker weapons shouldnt feel weaker than others but should feel stronger. players should be happy to have a psyker on their team instead of rather have some other class double because a psyker seems so underpowered and useless compared to others to most players.
whats the point in having to deal with peril management and paying attention to numbers and bars and all the mechanics and environment and taking the risk to blow up if not that psykers feel strong or especially good in certain things and offering proper crowd control? like a friend of mine said “why would i play a psyker and deal with all that rather complex bs when i can just play a veteran and shoot at things or priest a priest and bash at things and kill more enemies and deal with more situations more easily?”, thats not how its supposed to be…
the whole psykers were so overpowered (while whoever that said never played on damnation) and now they are so useless on everything above malice thing is so stupid, there were design flaws from the beginning rather than an overpowered problem and that didnt change by just nerfing brainbursts and quelling. hell the whole game has design flaws you cant just quickly fix with such simple nerfs or buffs, but thats a problem you get when you push a game out too early insttead of testing and playing some more and have a early access phase to have proper player feedback after having players test an idea or change while theres still time to overhaul whole concepts and implement proper more complex changes.
cudos to the devs but fatsharks management and marketing guys decissions obviously suck! especially when you expect stuff thats even better and more thought through since they already made vermintide 2 before and learned a lot there, but then you get halfbaked stuff thats like 10 steps back and seems they forgot all the lessons learned in vermintide, but thats another story…

2 Likes

Agreed. Then again the status/buff bar feels incompletely across a range of issues. Lots of things don’t show up there, it isn’t big enough. But yes, I agree.

If you have the two extra feats, and are fighting a group, with one or two BB sprinkled in you can often get to max stacks in less than 20 seconds, and often even quicker than that.

It does depend on difficulty though. Hordes on Heresy+ are much larger and denser and more enemies are in between big encounters. It feels easier to get and maintain stacks on higher difficulties.

I’d still like to see something where warp charges decay one at a time instead of all at once.

This is true.

Sometimes I wonder if you should just get a warp charge whenever your BB goes off, regardless of whether the target was fully killed or not.

I’d also like to see a way to have the force sword special attack (which is basically a drain life/energy attack) generate a warp charge. Could be blessing option or made as part of a talent.

If stacks decay one at a time it would help with keeping damage up. I think they should just buff the stacks the +5% damage.

To your last point, it’s not entirely true. Kinetic Flayer is an on-hit method to trigger a BB, which against a lot of targets will be a killing blow and give you a warp charge. I really find that this is the most reliable way to get charges.

Personally, I’ve long said that Kinetic Flayer should be a default starting passive ability of the class (swap it out for Battle Meditation and buff the later as a feat option).

I think the damage is fine. If I made a change to BB casting it would be to have the charge time scale a bit depending on the health of the target, so weaker targets would be BB’d faster. That said, if BB’ing weaker units is too fast players will run around doing that all the time instead of using their main ranged weapon. I think there’s a balance to find here.

I pay basically no attention to passive quell speeds. You can manually quell peril fully in less time than many weapons take to reload. Moreover if using Feat 10-1 (+damage based on peril) I usually want a moderate amount of peril and having it quell away too quickly reduces my damage output.

Yeah, the feat that spreads soublaze on elite kill is really weak IMHO. Too situational with too weak of an effect.

I could see turning it into a skill where if you BB a target and it dosent die, your next BB charges twice as fast with less peril or something like that to give players that really want to dig into BB an upgrade.

Soul blaze could probably use a sight buff damage wise. One or two stacks is basically useless.

Fences/railings aside, this is hugely useful. Particularly for sniping elites/specials during heavy ranged fire fights where you can deal with enemy damage dealers with very little exposure or risk.

I notice this too, although weapon switching seem to be glitchy and problematic across the board, since it’s tied to server side registration.

I’m with you on a lot of points, but this one is over exaggerated IMHO. If you’re not triggering your feats your are playing way too passively and/or too focused on trying to BB and manage warp stacks instead of using your other weapons more and letting the warp charges come passively.


Honesty, I think Psykers biggest problem is not their mechanics or their performance, but rather the expectation the class design engenders in players about how the class is supposed to play and how their performance is really contingent on certain higher level feats and/or weapons.

What do I mean by this?

BB is a utility skill, but when leveling up and playing in lower difficulty missions it’s easy to get the impression that it’s your primary skill because so much ties into it.

BB also exclusively ties into warp charges starting out, so players get the expectation that you need to constantly BB to maintain warp charges and they get overly focused on that cycle.

BB generates a lot of peril too, so then players get really paranoid about generating too much peril and end up trying to optimize around peril reduction too, which hurts their damage output in other ways.

Psyker at level 30 with higher level gear/blessings is entirely different than a lower level psyker, and this changing experience I think rubs people the wrong way.

On the other hand, this changing experience as you level up affords you the ability to work in some different play styles depending on the type of force staff you take.

I do think Psyker should start out with either a force sword or a force staff when leveling. And as I said earlier, I think Kinetic Flayer should be a default ability of the class so that everyone has two ways to trigger a BB (and get warp charges) right away. I think that would smooth out the experience for players.

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I would personally prefer to see the 4% chance to generate warp charge on kills in coherency to be made passive than kinetic flayer. Then for warp charges generally I agree with them dropping off one at a time, though I would appreciate a minor duration increase of +5 seconds (takes it up to 30 seconds per stack).

I would also like it if kinetic flayer’s proc chance was changed to be per enemy hit rather than per attack. Purgatus already triggers it basically straight away off cooldown but the others staffs can get unlucky and go without a proc for a fair while.

If just those things were changed it would be enough for me to be pretty happy with Psyker overall. Those 2 awful soul blaze feats could definitely use a buff/rework but for me that’s lower priority.

4 Likes

I made a suggestion that the 10% proc chance on battle meditation to quell 10% peril should also generate a warp charge, while the 4% chance talent be changed to something more engaging. Besides some of the weak talents needing a buff, I think the main issue of the psyker is how squishy they are compared to the three other classes.

4 Likes

Zealot Feats tied to Blitz = 0 / 18
Ogryn Feats tied to Blitz = 1 / 18
Veteren Feats tied to Blitz = 3 / 18
Psyker Feats tied to Blitz = 11 / 18

Well gee, I wonder why people might get the impression Fatshark wants Psyker to be using its Blitz action, AKA Brain Burst, just a smidge more than other classes.

The only way to “Let Warp Charges come passively” is to take 2 specific Feats.
Feats that compete with other viable feats in their line, meaning not every build is going to take them.
Also, Kinetic Flayer requires the auto Brain Burst to score the killing blow to generate you a Charge. The Brain Burst triggers on hit, but the Charge generation suffers just the same as a manual Brain Burst.

20 seconds is a LONG time.
Zealot can achieve max Martyrdom in a quarter of that time.
Not only that, But the feat [Rising Conviction] can be maxed in as little as 3 seconds on a single enemy depending on weapon choice.

But its somehow fine for a Psyker to need up to 20 seconds to achieve a 12% boost that then needs to repeated on every encounter thereafter or be forced to go out of your way to BB every random Poxwalker on the way to the next?
A boost I’d like to remind you CANNOT be achieved against a boss without constantly turning away from the boss to BB random Poxwalkers.

Just FYI, “Fixed damage” on BB is referring to the damage being unmodifiable. It is “fixed” at 800 damage, with Warp Charges being the only way to increase that damage, and only by 12 - 18%.
I’m not suggesting the damage is an issue.
Brain Bursts biggest issue is that its tied to Warp Charges. If Warp Charges were naturally generated from something like 1 Charge per 10% Peril Quelled (which gives purpose to the 10% Peril Quell on kill passive)
A lot of complaints surrounding Brain Bursts inability to one shot at high difficulties would dissipate if Warp Charges (the real reason for the complaint) were not welded to it.

Your entire post just reinforces how broken Psyker is.
And we’re not even getting into the truly counter intuitive aspects, like having multiple Feats require you to be at high Peril to work but also having a passive you cannot get rid of that drains 10% Peril on kill.

The goal is to get Fatshark to fix the broken systems, Not to buff the damage output directly.

5 Likes

psyker suuuucks
walls of text also suuuuck

1 Like

This. Great post btw that I largely agree with.

I don’t think we need a dmg or survival buff, we need a less negative feedback loop buff.

Imo these are the top fixes I think would do a lot for psyker play(with most important on top):

Higher proc chance on Psychic communion (5 or 6% at least), or alternatively as you suggest warp charge is generated from ~10% quelled peril.
Considerably less intensity of muffled sound from high peril(top prio imo as it’s really annoying as you can’t hear anything and sound is soo important).
Longer duration on warp charges (15-20 secs at least).
Less obscured vision from high peril.
Less obscured vision from blocking with Force Sword.

Other suggestions in no particular order:
Make Force Sword special attack automatically generate a warp charge.
Make Force Sword special attack do catastrophic(similar to thunderhammer, at least) damage to demons and warp entities like Plaguebeast and Demon Host(the fact that it doesn’t is really inconsistent with lore. In the tabletop game all attacks with Force weapons automatically wound demons and ignore armor, with no saving throw possible).
Fix voidstrike on higher difficulties-it’s basically useless against anything but poxwalkers there.
Fix trauma staff - can’t attack stuff on higher ground, generates obscene amounts of peril to the point where you spend more time quelling than you do attacking.

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So do guns. Some are better at close range, others at long range. Some do AOE damage, stagger or do single target damage. I agree on the RNG aspects, I despise them in general. Some perks/talents are objectively worse.

Changes are coming I’m sure, V2 had multiple balance passes, some major ones as far as I remember.

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Staffs are definitely weak, and the more precision oriented ones like Trauma and Void could use better damage since they take aim to use, and reduced peril build up. I also need a force melee weapon that can somewhat deal with hordes since the FS is totally useless in that regard.

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Yeah but guns generally can kill ranged units, it’s explained in the text.
That is very bad on high difficulty

In fact i would add to this, apart from the ogryn guns and the zealot flamer, there isn’t a single gun in the game that prevents you outright from dealing with ranged units, even the bolter, is incredibly eazy to line up a shot and take out 1 las infantry with a headshot and move on to the next target.

I outlined clearly, that for instance if the psyker picks the purgatus staff, he handicaps himself completely with dealing with ranged, there is no mechanic that helps him in that regard, and the rest of the staffs with exception of the void staff struggle massively with this.

I know it’s a wall of text on the original post but it’s almost like you din’t read it lol

Nope, there are many inaccurate high damage guns which cannot take out enemies at long range. Nope, you can still use brain burst for long range if you use a flame staff.

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Those guns are found on zealot and ogryn, either can use their ult to close the distance whereas psyker can’t and BB takes too long for taking out random ranged units, again it’s in the wall of text fool.

I agree. They have less toughness and health compared to others (as well as the hidden modifiers like toughness Regen and hit while sliding and such overall) so they should do more damage to compensate, or get more toughness.

Honestly, most psykers use staves not guns. There should be more of them, or more incentive to use non-psyker specific weapons.

My biggest issue is when you play higher difficulties brain burst becomes next to useless. It takes too much peril and time to use and top little damage. It takes 2 hits on dogs, flamers, ragers, etc. Like 4 on ogyrns, mutants, etc.

I think overall “grenade” abilities should have more damage scaling for all classes… Or a curio slot to modify them.

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brain burst is not fine on damnation

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Those guns are found on every class.

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Psyker’s got problems and half of them would be solved if

  • 0.75 cast time on brainburst. Internal cooldown between bursts if necessary.

  • BB generated stacks on activation, not kill

  • Warp stacks depreciated 1 at a time every 45 seconds.

I don’t see the utility value that requires this class to have as much micro as it does. Especially with how Peril and Quelling works with force weapons; feels like Quelling is always 100% faster when not equipping a force weapon, bruh.

If balance on lower difficulties is the concern than package good BB/Warp Charge buffs into the level 25/30 feats. Psyker’s talent tree has no meat, anyway.

2 Likes

When i said those guns i meant guns that cant reach or are too innacurate to hit ranged infantry, however. I’m talking about the issues with staffs on psyker, not guns.
I can’t tell if you’re trolling at this point :confused:

Your posts are incoherent.

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I just want an ability that highlights specials/elites etc

2 Likes

Honestly, as a more experienced psyker now, I feel like I’m easily able to contribute a lot to the success of any team on Heresy.

A good Purgatus staff with high Warp resistance allows you to literally spam fire everywhere anytime, and trivializes hordes, ambushes, groups of flak armor, and generally anything that’s not specifically resistant to it (like the bullrush mutant). The M1, even if weak, has good stagger and can be spammed through teammates to stagger ragers. And for everything else, you’ve still got BrainBurst or your melee weapon. If we had a scoreboard at the end, I’m certain the Damage dealt stat would be through the roof.

What bothers me more is the gameplay loop to take care of big rooms full of gunners. Unless you’ve got the zappy lightning staff, if you want to stay safe you have to get in cover, abuse BrainBurst spam at 97% Peril, then Ascending Blaze when you have 6 stacks, and just wait for the gunners to die of soulfire.
It’s not difficult, it’s slow but safe, it feels like I’m cheesing the game, and yet I don’t feel like there are any good alternatives ! Trying to fight at long range with the Voidstrike against 10 million gunners is a losing strategy. I could try and go in with a Deflector Force Sword, but it feels super risky…

Psyker doesn’t necessarily need buffs (except Trauma Staff of course, that sucks ass), but it does need changes of some sort…

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