It was more meant to the powersword direction, but yeah i would call infinite cleave broken aswell.
And no, i don´t have a problem. I perform very well on damnation sitting on my forcesword most of the time. It´s very balanced since it´s answers to everything, but not any answer is too powerful and far away from being useless.
It´s also very smooth to waveclear with it once you got used to its range and flow. Normally i used a bunch of pushes on swords / axes inbetween and still have to do on zealot, but not on the forcesword.
It´s up to you if you´re convinced it´s useless or might give it a second chance. But in the first case i would tell you the same… then you seem to prefer broken weapons or overall stats than getting used to something that´s actually balanced.
The problem is that this tactic only works halfway - all the shooters except the guys with bayonets keep shooting you at point-blank range, which is deadly on Damnation. Yes, this is often faster than shooting with them, but in some cases this tactic cannot be implemented - the space is too large, the enemies are too dispersed. And in this case, Ogryns and Zealots suffer.
On the Zealot, yes, because now ranged enemies cannot damage him during his dash. Unless they cancel it the moment it’s activated. And if you can aim your ult at the enemy, which sometimes doesn’t work.
On Ogrin, no. During the run you have no immortality and you lose all your hp.
Suppression just doesn’t work, at least for me - running with the Braced Autogun on the Fanatic for 30 missions now, I have never seen more than 1 enemy I’m shooting at attempting to take cover.
They just need to make at least some chance of missing the player. At least at a distance of 25+ meters.
There is no point debating with him. In this and other threads it all boils down to how he claims it’s just a skill issue. He also keeps talking about all these myriad different builds you can try on Psyker (that magically don’t need specific blessings), but the only one he’s ever able to talk about is Purge. I mean just now he claimed you can ult and let the horde burn down and focus on specials instead, completely ignoring that the TTK on soulblaze is so long that the horde will have gotten up and into your melee range long before they die.
Him, and others, fail to realize that several of us that complain about Psyker quite comfortably clear heresy+. It’s not a skill issue. It’s a matter of a badly designed class that makes you work way harder than other classes, for lesser results.
For how meaningless it is to debate with him, just see how he says playing Zealot is braindead. That means he has never, ever dashed into a spreading group of ranged and shotgunners and performed the very delicate dance of dodge and slide required to actually safely melee a room full of instant toughness deleters.
Nobody’s arguing the Psyker’s kit as a whole is weak, he is strong; but not because of BB. Otherwise, there wouldn’t be a vast amount of people complaining about it.
Ideal situations for BB are rare. Quickening makes it a lot more powerful and makes it worth using, otherwise you’re better off using a force staff or going into melee.
The career itself is incredibly weak, with talents that are very very poorly thought out. Similarly the BB is incredibly badly designed.
The moment we get a Psyker subclass that actually has talents for buffing / improving staves, Psykinetic will never be used again.
In this case, the 200% cleave perk on most weapons is also broken - because it gives all weapons that have it the same infinite cleave as the Brutal Momentum on the axe.
And? The fact that you can compensate for the mediocrity of a weapon with your personal skill does not make it less mediocre. It just shows that you are good.
No, it’s not. It has disgusting attack angles, and incredibly weak light attacks. Yes, this weapon isn’t the worst in the game, but it’s not even close to being as good as you make it out to be. The main question for this weapon is: why use it if there is a Brain Burst? The only targets you do more damage than Brain Burst are Mauler (body hit), Flak Rager and Mutant. You expose yourself to melee attacks trying to kill an elite with a special attack… but why? Brainburst is used at about the same speed as one special attack, but you can dodge while charging it. This is the main problem with this sword for me - that the damage from the special attack on most opponents is the same as that of the Brainburst, and at the same time it only goes to one target. If at the moment of killing the elite, the targets next to him were a little staggered, or set on fire - this would have been many times more adequate. Yes, being able to push one particular elite with a push is nice. Yes, a shield from ranged attacks is also nice. But in general, this weapon requires 2 times more effort from you to achieve the same result as with other weapons.
Wait a minute. What kind of new level of elitism is this “I play with mediocre weapons because it’s Right and I have the Skill for this, and you continue to play with broken ones.” Boy, I play this game the way I want and the way it gives me the opportunity. Like I’ve been playing Vermintide before. If I see an effective weapon, I use it. I can also play with mediocre weapons, I did it for a change when I wanted something new, but I do not make myself a Great Martyr who suffers in the name of a sacred perfect balance.
Well, in the end we came to what I already guessed - some people just like to play with weak weapons, and then come to the Forums / Reddits and say that these are not mediocre weapons that I play with, these are all other weapons that are too powerful, and they need to be nerfed to the level of his mediocrity. Brilliant.
And I’m not saying that all weapons should be made as powerful as the Power Sword. No, all weapons need to be made pleasant to use and sufficiently effective, occupying some kind of niche.
As i´ve admitted there are some map locations which are clearly terrible to play. But overall it should be doable. Of course if you don´t get any backup or no other frontliner by your side, you´ll have a way harder time.
But seriously to sacrifice some health or even a healthbar shouldn´t be that big of a deal if you remember the medistation-locations and if it helps your team continuing your way.
I also mean the Psyker one… the range is pretty insance and even if you don´t knockback all to the ground, they´ll be staggered a moment and stop shooting. Then they start taking cover mostly, trying to reaim etc…
Tbh i don´t know how good it actually works or if it scales with something like stopping power or just the RMB on some weapons… but if i use rightclick and spray & pray on my SMG it atleast seems to work.
I think that would make range combat even more aweful AND easy to play, meanwhile Vet / Psyker will get way stronger and high range weapons mandatory.
Of course it´s hard if you´ve like 20 enemies on you to dodge them all, but yet again, i don´t think a nerf is needed right now. Let more poeple getting better at the game, let them adjust how to deal with them and if we get more classes, they may should come back with some restrictions, so the teams will be more balanced anyway.
Mate all i´ve ever read from you about Psyker has been moaning without any real thoughts on it. You clearly don´t even wanna try out stuff and doom everything you´re not used to. You can´t even agree to disagree since this class is nothing but a “hot mess”.
If you comfortably clear heresy+ with Psyker, where is the issue? Or is it just sitting on broken Vet with broken weapons or on your zealot?
Also zealot has been my first choice here as it was in Vermintide, so yes, i know what i´m talking about. And it´s the first time i clearly mentioned “skill issue” against you, which is not even meant bad or insulting. It´s just given to your claims and lack of interest to try out stuff, that i doubt that you want to go out of your comfortzone with overscaled classes or weapons.
Also the first build i´ve ever mentioned was my own one without a staff, sitting on melee and my ultimate most of the times. And what has been the answer? “You´ve to be carried then…”.
It also seems that you can´t even imagine that someone is better at the game or has a better class-feeling for a class you doom anyway. Same about the forcesword… you claim it to be useless, but have you ever tried getting used to it? I guess not… atleast not really.
Even away from this, not everyone performs the same way with every weapon. I personally tend more to use weapons with a good flow and where i don´t have to use heavy attacks to deal with armored enemies. Was the same in V2 where i mostly play axe / greataxe and swords. But did i show up like “please buff greatsword, it sucks in my hands!”, no… it´s just not my playstyle.
But hey, think whatever you want… i´m 100% sure you tunnelvision hard on this topic for whatever reasons.
Sure it is, never said that weapons or perks are balanced especially in their tiers. But that´s more a future topic.
I mean tbh… how many ppl show up being like “But i clear heresy+…, so i know what i´m talking about!”
I wouldn´t call it compensate… i truly believe the weapon is one of the most balanced in the game. As i´ve said, it offers everything, but isn´t broken nor useless on what it offers.
Other weapons have a huge waveclear but suck on single-target or are balanced the other way round.
Really i can only say… give it a 2nd chance.
Also my view on balancing is clearly somewhat different anyway. I highly believe FS should make better use of the difficulties and they shouldn´t overscale stuff, just so everyone is able to clear everything.
I don´t want to gatekeep, but that´s what difficulties are for right? A skill-based challenge, not just “Ok you´ve better stats, so we increase the stats of the enemies aswell.”
This is no kind of elitism, it´s just that a lot of poeple like the other guy here don´t even want to give it a chance, don´t even think it´s possible and can´t even agree to disagree.
I know that a bunch of players want stuff to be more powerful. As i´ve said above, i want a balanced game where difficulties mean something instead of getting outscaled.
How good a weapon / character is, is often opinion and skillbased anyway and that´s something noone can deny. It´s up to FS to decide what they do, but right now i won´t change my statement that the forcesword is one of the best balanced weapons in the game and i won´t even take the extraperks into account.
Actually you continously bring up skill in almost all your posts, all over the forum, to everyone. You also strawman like nobody’s business. I don’t even play Vet, for instance.
Why is it so hard to understand that I can comfortably clear heresy+ with Psyker, and yet still think there is something wrong with the class?
Clearly in your mind Psyker is the only balanced class, with perfectly balanced weapons. Meanwhile all other careers and weapons are broken OP. It’s an opinion that is so far removed from what most people experience with the game, that it’s very difficult to take it serious. Especially since you over and over and over again talk about how amazeballs you are at everything in the game, and anyone with a different opinion either has no skill, or doesn’t understand the mechanics, or ‘isn’t suited’ to the playstyle. Seriously, get over yourself.
“Something” is not the whole class. You run around “it´s useless, it´s a mess, you get carried on Psyker” etc…
How does it make sense you still play it? Masochism? Playing to moan about it?
No Psyker isn´t the only balanced class, but it has overall well balanced feats at each level. Never said zealot or ogryn are broken af, only the flamethrower at some point and that zealot is as braindead to play as it was in V2, which makes it any easy pick. Only Vet is clearly broken.
You want that game to cater you and i don´t even mind if one or another weapon or class is slightly more effective than others. But “too effective” on the highest difficulties is a clear indicator for being broken. That players want that has nothing to do with balancing at some point. It´s also ok if you´ve fun with it, but since it´s a coop-game you´ll kill the fun for other while easily cleaving through all waves or oneshotting elites.
Meanwhile yes, Psyker is in a very good spot to deal with everything on different builds without being useless or lacking hard behind.
Also i highly doubt it´s hard to take me serious, you just don´t want it. You and others proofed that multiple times even to other players thinking Psyker is fine or are fine with one or another system. It´s more like “Oh no… another one not matching my opinion…”, and you clearly read only what you want.
And no, i´m not running around “look how good i am” all day long". I already said why i came to the conclusion about a lack of skill, when you´re not open for anything about Psyker and just moan about everything and everything thinking it´s fine. Relying on the most effective weapons or traits won´t make you a better player anyway. (Might not match you, but a lot out there.)
Duelling Sword is better (I use MKV).
Offers much better dodge dodge distance, while still maintaining high dodge count.
Has a better moveset for hordes.
Decent damage against Mutants and Hounds.
Its special makes it much better under pressure or on the backfoot and allows you to stop ragers - from a safe distance - before they can go into their flurry.
The giant problem with all this advice is saying: “Just use X weapon with Y blessing” in a game where you have absolutely no control over what you get.
The likelyhood that anyone has a force sword with high stats, slaughter and deflector is so incredibly low that it’s basically like telling someone that they should just win the lottery if they need money.
God, i will never understand people like OP. Why should fun and enjoyment be sacrificed on the altar of “balance” (whatever that means anyway) escpecially in a PVE game? Writing an entire essay just to pre-empt the Devs from doing something right for a change and buffing the Psyker to where its actually fun to play is a weird and strange thing. Especially when said essay can be summed up by:
Everyone else is wrong or plays wrong
Dont cry just suffer through it
Depend on RNG hoping you will get a playable experience —eventually—
This game lives and dies by its gameplay loop and if that loop is a sweaty hassle reliant on RNG it will keep bleeding players until a core of 500 people like OP remains excel spreadsheeting their % through the RNG “crafting” system patting themselves on the back.
PS. the reason people play Vets and Zealots isnt because they are “broken” but because they are actually enjoyable to play. This should be what the game strives for not a “balanced” mediocrity.
I agree to some extent. OP sounds indeed condescending.
As for Psyker
The class has the strongest cc and is the most flexible.
There are like three issues with it imo:
Having someone else kill your BB target feels, bad because you dealt no damage
BB right click should store a charge, cause then it would not be so bad for your peril economy
Warp stacks are cumbersome to keep up
None of these mean the class is bad or unplayable. Personally I find it fun to play.
Take a duelling sword mk V and a surge staff. No specific blessings needed.
Still these points are something that should be improved upon.
Speaking of which, I’m still disappointed in the design of the Psyker. When I first saw that Brain Burst is only a single target based ultimate and requires a channel, I was asking myself what were the developers thinking when they designed that ability. It doesn’t fit for this type of game. I’d rather an ability that’s able to consistently kill multiple targets without much effort and is easy to execute. This is important because the AI Director for these games tends to throw demanding encounters at you. Being able to react easily to any given situation without artificial mechanics delaying your reaction, is essential to success and more importantly, fun. This also, in a way, goes into why weapon swapping is bad in Darktide, but I digress.
Let’s go back to Vermintide and take a look at how the developers designed the Pyromancer’s class ability. The reason why I’m focusing on this class is because on a certain level its class ability is identical in function to Brain Burst, it focuses on single target damage, but unlike Brain Burst, its more flexible to use and can be executed without much trouble under pressure - this is key to understanding why Vermintide 2 is the ideal framework to follow when creating new abilities.
In one of her subclasses, the Pyromancer, Witch has the ability to summon a fireball that seeks out a target, however, unlike Brain Burst, this ability has additional utility to its effect. For starters, you’re not required to spend an eternity channeling it. That’s already a plus. We don’t need artificial mechanics imposing themselves on a player’s ability to react. These games are already challenging as is on the highest difficulty with randoms. There’s no need for the mechanics themselves to impose further difficulty, as it’s artificial and lame. Additionally the fluidity of combat isn’t impacted in a negative way. These abilities should be fast and fluid to operate. If not, then there needs to be a substantial trade off for losing that fluidity, which Brain Burst doesn’t really provide.
Anyways, as I was saying, you can quickly shoot Pyromancer’s ability with the press of the F key and it’ll immediately kill whatever target you’re looking at. If having issues with targeting, you can opt to channel the fireball by holding down the F key which will then prompt a highlight that’ll make it easier to target:
The great thing is that once the fireball kills its mark it’ll then seek out other enemies before dissipating. So the fireball is easy to use, is fluid to control, doesn’t take you out of the action by imposing itself, and has the additional utility of killing other enemies once it eliminates its target. That’s good design for a class ability. Contrast this to Brain Burst where you’re taken out of the action by channeling it for an eternity and it only kills one singular target. It’s kind of lame. At the very least, if the player is expected to put in that much effort for a class ability then I’d expect the ability to do an Area of Effect that affects more than one target.
Brain Burst sharing the same slot as other classes grenades is fitting as it’s a niche tactical option to use in a fight. It’s not good for every situation, but unlike the other classes grenade slot choices, it doesn’t rely on ammo and it can only “miss” if the target dies before you finish casting. Brain Burst is an armor piercing, burst damage, heavy stagger attack that can be tweaked with class talents to increase incoming non-warp damage, set multiple enemies on fire and/or cast at a much faster speed for 10 seconds at less warp cost. If you choose to run with Mind in Motion you can also quell peril at your full movement speed which helps make chaining brain bursts between quelling feel a lot less clunky.
I personally don’t like to lean too heavily on BB, but there are moments where it’s a good option to pick off fast moving specialists or other targets that dug in somewhere during a heavy firefight.
Pyromancers flying skull of doom is great, but it’s an ultimate ability on a longer cooldown. It’s not really in the same category as BB. If anything BB functions more similar to the Bolt Staff in VT1.
If Op thinks psyker is fine then I challenge him to this.
Use only weapons from the common pool, no class specific weapons.
Beat the highest difficulty mission.
Zealot would have no problem with this, probably use a mk 12 lasgun and a axe or dagger. (I imagine the crit build for melee and the mk 12 is great for killing ranged enemies and specials.)
Veteran could do fine with a mk 12 lasgun and a chainsword(yes, all 3 humans can get chainsword)
(Grenade build comes to mind to help deal with hordes bc the lasgun is good for priority targets or ranged troops, and the chainsword is great for tying up dangerous melee foes.)
Psyker would struggle without using weapons that involve peril bc otherwise you have an ult with a very unreliable knockback, and a grenade that would kill priority targets slower than a mk 12 lasgun or a chainsword(depending on distance to target)
Psyker I doubt will have half as pleasant of a time
Veteran have synergy with LITERALLY every gun in their pool. Zealot have synergy with LITERALLY every melee in their pool.
And then u write to use psyker tools with no sunergy. Look logical.
If serious: i have no troubles with some “restrictions” about weapon i need to use and find it logical that psyker is psyker because…use of psyker power. BUT.
I have HUUUUGE problem with chances of gettin good weapon for psyker in RNG.
I play mainly psyker, and absolutly love flame build, because in that build i can save run in solo on damnation (just because u have tool for every threat). But if i want to play other builds like void or palpy - i need better staff. And this “BETTER STAFF” can be obtain in rng shop that gave me TONS of guns. But not staff. And that is only the begining. If i want EFFECIENT play as void on damnation i NEED quicken peril as a bless and + 25% damage on flak armour even on 380 staff. How many chances i have there?
