Poll: Hardest class to do good with in Havoc? No Ogryn

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1

Yes this doesn’t includes ogryn because we all know they would be #1. This is a opinion poll not buff ogryn thread #9298.

As the title implies I’m curious what people think is the hardest currently Havoc 40 meta class is. Ill break it down a little more as well to the hardest ability and keystone/weapon choice, and for some added detail I would want to see what people think the highest skill floor and height skill ceiling class is.

Skill Floor = Basic skill level to play effectively.
Skill Ceiling = Skill required to reach maximum effectiveness.

Generally when I say “hardest” I mean the one that is the hardest to do their role with, not to top score with. Like the veteran probably isn’t getting highest damage but are they effectively killing elites/specialists/disablers and using shout well? Or if you are using the relic blade your more likely to be cutting through hoards more then chasing down crushers like with a dueling sword. Use some common sense as to what “hardest” means per thing, in a lot of ways this is a poll about how hard a role is to do in havoc 40 more then how good the things are. And of course I am assuming your build is made to work with the given weapon/ability/whatever.

Zealot

Skill Floor

  • Hardest
  • Middling
  • Easiest
0 voters

Skill Ceiling

  • Hardest
  • Middling
  • Easiest
0 voters

Psyker

Skill Floor

  • Hardest
  • Middling
  • Easiest
0 voters

Skill Ceiling

  • Hardest
  • Middling
  • Easiest
0 voters

Veteran

Skill Floor

  • Hardest
  • Middling
  • Easiest
0 voters

Skill Ceiling

  • Hardest
  • Middling
  • Easiest
0 voters

Bonus Stuff

Im trying to keep the options a little limited to just generally what is accepted great like S tier and A+ tier only. Sorry if your favorite A- tier thing isn’t here, I’m just trying to exclude obvious answers here.

Zealot Detailed

Hardest Blitz

  • Blades
  • Flame
0 voters

Hardest Ability

  • Chorus
  • Fury
0 voters

Hardest Keystone

  • Blazing Piety
  • Martyrdom
  • Inexorable Judgment
0 voters

Hardest Weapon

  • Knife
  • Dueling Sword
  • Relic Blade
0 voters

Psyker Detailed

Hardest Blitz

  • Smite
  • Brain Rupture
0 voters

Hardest Ability

  • Venting
  • Shield
0 voters

Hardest Keystone

  • Warp Siphon
  • Empowered Psionics
0 voters

Hardest Weapon

  • Inferno
  • Voidblast
  • Electrokinetic
0 voters

Psyker is a bit weird. Like I could combine warp siphon with shield, and empowered psionics with smite. Obviously default meta is warp siphon shield, but smite venting empowered is also very good. They are both good in different ways and depend heavily on your team composition plus the map, and I know some weirdos like running scrier’s melee zealot and disrupt destiny? Im really not sure if that could be considered A+ Tier. Thats more of a B+ at least from what I have seen. Whatever its my poll deal with it.

Veteran Detaild

Hardest Blitz

  • Krak
  • Frag
0 voters

Hardest Keystone

  • Focus Target
  • Weapons Specialist
0 voters

Hardest Weapon

  • Plasma
  • Recon Las
  • Bolter
0 voters

Lets be real in regards to ability, its not a question. Also I have seen some compelling cases for helbore but I am not convinced, and I just dont think BAG is meta for havoc, honestly bolter is a little questionable for veteran already.

2 Likes
2

Very hard to answer these questions, zealot questions specifically feel loaded.

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Why do you say that? It does seem like people answered mostly based off of what is better, though I wouldn’t personally say what is better is always easier to use.

I do find some of these answers pretty interesting already but I’ll wait for more responses before I comment.

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never seen anyone pick immolation grenades over throwing knives on high havoc. the pathing to it is taxed to hell for no reason

FoTF while being pretty powerful on its own with its ranged dodge comes with a heavy opportunity cost of not being able to buff infinite cleave soulfire fest

can’t imagine trying to actually set up and play martyrdom against all that ranged spam, that would take someone a lot better than me

brain burst gets completely cucked by ranged DR. knives at least got a sliver of stagger to them, bb cant even crit

EP is an off-meta pick that gets 2/3 blitzes do a silly combination of jack $h1t and fuск all, no reason to use it

Only saw electrokinetic staff being used in one of the groups i played with - it almost tied with 1:1 inferno staff build in both damage and kills in a span of 20+ games. solid pick that is just harder to play for no reason

kraks are overall worse than shredders, not a common pick either

haven’t seen WS being used at all. too clunky in its current iteration

boltgun is too ammo hungry to be used on vet while plasma and DR ignoring recon las exists

5

I have seen people run them. Though yes not really the best option. Still feels odd to not at least have two blitz options there. Its situational but easy bonus damage if you don’t mind taking a bolt pistol to fill the blades gap.

Yeah of course no one will run it over chorus if there isn’t already a shout and/or chorus on the team. But 2 zealot is very common.

Seen people do it, and its actually pretty good. The hard part is setting it up lol.

Brain burst seems to be a very common pick for havoc psyker builds, since if you arent building around smite the other 2 are useless. You just take kinetic flayer for like +100k-200k damage over the course of the mission, and you can blow up a sniper or whatever if you need to.

Damage smite is actually really good if built around venting and empowered psionics, just stack perilous combustion and wild fire as well and you actually deal crazy damage, along with locking down entire sections of the map. I would recommend trying it, I have out damaged voidblast players by basically exclusively using smite.

I see people run krak if you run no psyker (blow up bulwarks). Kinda off meta but has its niche enough to consider running it.

I still see a lot of plasma vets running it.

Yeah I know but there is a weird subsection of people that still run it and idk I would get yelled at if it wasn’t here lol. Its a 3rd place weapon on veteran just a distant 3rd place, arguably easier to use then recon las though.

Maybe its just a steam forum thing but I have been yelled at for so much as suggesting a off meta thing isn’t really that good. Just read this thread lol, better safe then sorry:

6

sad, cant contribute sah, no play punies only ogryn :frowning_face:

2 Likes
7

Maybe some day ogryn will be as good as the others. But unfortunately that day isn’t today.

Who knows maybe if fatshark decides to add a auto cannon for ogryn…

8

This puny will drink with you, respected mountain. :beers:

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9

i share rashun pal :cut_of_meat:

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10

Lmao. Crit and Finesse is peak Psyker damage.

3 Likes
12

Wasn’t sure initially if this was intended to spark discussion too, but as I’ve seen a bit happening thought I’d throw my hat in the ring too.

Seems the ‘class consensus’ I mostly agree with, Zealots are the easiest to exist on but can be played well for decently better results, Psykers are the hardest to play on given their propensity to get 1 shot but when played well can just actively full carry a team, and Veterans require aiming and ammo so require a good bit of knowlage to get started and going, but once you feel useful on them they pretty much stay at that level with marginal gains.

I love Immolation Grenade/pretty much always use it every week I’ve been doing my 40, I feel it’s an incredible tool for softening the hordes especially with it getting buffed by all the talents leading up to it (Anoint in Blood + Purge the Unclean). I also tend to couple it with a Flamer though, which further buffs it’s damage with Blaze Away along with just more burn so it as a supliment helps a bunch, on top of the fact that all the other ‘meta’ picks don’t use grenades or recharge them (veterans), so being the one immolation grenade stan on the team makes those +3 grenade pick ups littered all over the map VERY nice and useful. Especially given they aren’t reduced like ammo, so it can help you supplement your wave clear game while you’re waiting for your flamer to get enough ammo back in to it to be useful again. (that all being said, it is the ‘harder’ of the two to use right, as you have to think about when the best times to use them are verses just throwing knives whenever is convenient. Also yes I tend to not have range when I do this, I’ve learned that so many put so much value on range in this mode that being the one that doesn’t usually results in me picking up the slack with wave clear, while the rest can do their killing of far of things that they so heavily feel is ultra required. Which it is, just not EVEryone has to do it xD).

Fury has forever felt like a trap to me, every time I’ve seen a Zealot use it we always lose due to the golden HP downtime that incurs due to it, and half the time they are ‘no life super solo’ zealots that just get themselves or the entire team killed and then we all auto leave after like 5 minutes in the match xD. If you’ve won with Fury, more power too you, I’m just more inclined to see what the rest of your team was running to compensate XD.

I’ve seen a Martyr only once, he certainly did alright. The downs can be useful, but the corruption just nukes you. I haven’t seen a single Inexorable Judgment like ever, being all the way over on that side of the tree feels a bit counter productive for something that doesn’t make you tougher to kill. Stalwart Piety I see as THEE meta for it just gives you everything you want (crit for ability spam and DR in the horde).

Relic Blade has the same tone to it as Fury for me, every time I’ve seen one they’ve at best done fine and I usually just wish they where doing something better XD. ‘Hardest’ for sure along those lines, rest is just used for crit ability spam, DS just has agile so much harder to get yourself killed with it.

BR needs you to either know what you are doing or be confident your front line will keep things off of you, Smite is the back up button xD

Venting only comes in when a Shield is already present, but ohh boy if you can have both and both the Psykers are good you will have the easiest clear of your life. But more often than not you will not have two capable Psykers, so Venting ‘harder’.

EP is like, never worth and thus ‘harder’, maybe if you want to run smite but even then, more ability spam more better (plus SO much toughness regen).

Staffs are truly a ‘pick your poison’ sort of action though, Inferno is brainless, Voidblast you need to know a little bit/stagger brake points and how to keep things off of you, Electrokinetic VERY challenging but I’ve seen it done.

Never seen a Krak Veteran that hasn’t also been sad, there’s just to much armor in Havoc for a single kill to matter that much, and half the bosses (the captains) near entirely ignore your grenade exists. Better (and easier) to knock everything over and cause it to bleed (with the bleed scaling with blaze away on that plas gun of yours too).

Focus Target is just free in every way and every point up to it you want, so ‘easier’ by nature of that. If one can justify a weapon specialist though, more power too them.

Annnnnd Boltgun just dumps to much ammo, VERY good weapon but impossible to keep stocked without VERY careful use/a full team around you making you not need to use it as much. Plasma and Recon are just ammo efficient/work better with survivalist so they are by default easier to use (and punch through armor, so that’s nice).

13

I would agree with most of the things said here personally. However.

On the topic of zealot, I have seen it done and do personally believe that martyrdom, charge, relic blade zealot, Is perhaps the way to play dps zealot (for most modifiers, as long as you aren’t playing pox gas or blight obviously). The stacked attack speed makes the relic blade swing about as fast as the dueling sword and deal frankly obscene damage plus the toughness negation

Chorus is definitely a easier as in its a get out of jail free card, but does come with the slight catch that you are expected to trigger chorus at good times and its extremely vital you stay alive. That role does have a lot more pressure, at least to me and that could make it “harder” in some ways, as often if the chorus zealot goes down everyone does.

Also people do tend to undervalue krak a little, it does actually have a AOE and you can use shout to stagger and stack up bulwarks/whatever in a corner to blow up multiple at a time.

14

Fotf is infinitely easier to play, it’s just very selfish, and will most likely cuck your pugsters over with.

2 Likes
15

The real issue with zealot, is how insanely bad your anti-armor options without abusing knife / DS, and / or fotf. You pretty much have no option other than to run a stupidly overtuned melee with chorus in order to be able to kill carapace, and even than, your dmg will be laughable.

Mind you, no other class has to make such a gigantic tradeoff between dmg and support.

16

Zealot has a lot of tools that are just generally considered good, especially in games like this, which is mostly just mobility and mitigation which makes the class a lot easier, however the skill expression of being able to do so well with a team oriented build and not just be a shroud field murder hobo is where the class starts to become significantly more difficult.

Vet is in a weird spot, I think its probably the hardest class to do well in havoc in, because its so limited in terms of what actually works. You are super fragile alone, even with shout, your guns typically deal less damage, enemies are massive bullet sponges and ammo is reducted. Your melee is worse than other classes (generally) and your best tools are as a support and consistantly lobbing grenades.

That being said, If you can deal with piority targets, manage your ammo count, hold your own in melee, be supportive and keep shout up consistantly, and use grenades to disrupt hyper density and provide CC. Its an amazing class for Havoc but still someone limited to being a 1/4 class.

The differences between a good vet and a bad one are almost instantly noticable, and even if you are insane at the class, it works best when its being babied with bubble shields and a supportive frontline.

Psyker is weird cause its fragile but most of the havoc builds for it are just bubble / cc bots, I don’t think it requires a particularly high skill cap at all. The hardest part is just managing your perils, and keeping people shielded, while doing damage. That or if you want to be super sweaty focus on keeping up warp charges so you can drop like 15 domes a min or whatever.

17

Relic blade does great with armor. Once you can get the hang of the strikedowns and pair it with its powered up state, it becomes a real monster. Hardest thing to do is aim for the head consistently though.

1 Like
18

I’m happy to see that general consensus on Zealot is that it’s fine the way it is, because it is. Anyone who complains about Zealot is really far gone.

19

I only gave psyker hard cuz you need to watch out not to blow yourself up and certain builds rewquire you to juggle on high peril.
Vet and Zealot are both flavor and favored classes and are easy as heck to play with, and I say this as a total FPS shooter noob.
Obviously there comes the point when the sheer power of the class is not enough to carry the player anymore. Auric Damnarion/Maelstorm and Havoc but in general these 2 classes are a joke, their talent options are busted.
Meanwhile Ogryn gets 15% more impact on fully charged heavy hits or whatever and (un)ironically the class that should be the strongest in melee due to it’s sheer strength, turns out to be the actual weakest.

20

Yea, relic is the only melee outside of uncanny ones that can deal with carapace patrols in a reasonable time without fotf. Tone down DS , flamer and you’d see just how lacking the chorus build is in anything but being a walkin lullaby singer for your team.

Again, no other class has to give up this much sustain and dmg, or rely on hillariously overtuned tools to be able to support. But since 90% won’t mind using em, zealot is the best I reckon.

Find it hillarious asking for new weapons, when 90% of havoc lobbies are all DS4 anyhow.

21

This exactly. Most weapons are never used. Let alone on high difficulty. What’s the point of adding more when there is no real choice in the first place?

Any new additions will have to compete against the current meta. Instead I would rather see outliers get boosted/nerfed.