[POLL] "An option to purchase Shillings"

:frowning:
I’m not happy at all with this news, tbh. Keeping the dollar cosmetics entirely as part of steam store dlc would’ve been a nice, transparent way of handling things. Clean, too.
‘Buying’ an exclusive currency that you can purchase cosmetics with is a practice developed entirely for the sake of making people spend more than what they need. Let’s say the cosmetic you want costs, idk, 300 Magic Coins ™. Well, too bad, you can either buy Magic Coins ™ in packs of 250, 500 or 1500 coins. Guess you’ll have to buy 500 and have 200 left over!

It’s a garbage practice. I’m not gonna go ahead and accuse FS of having this mentality when developing it, 'cause maybe they just figured ‘Hey, if it works for X and Y and everyone else, surely it works for us’ but I sincerely hope they steer goddamn clear of this path.

It’s starting to look like the emporium will be a copy paste from dead by daylight’s store, and I wasn’t too happy about how they implemented that, either. (2 currencies, one cash, one earned through ingame playtime. All cosmetics could be bought with the cash currency, not all cosmetics could be bought with the playtime currency. Playtime currency was incredibly slow to obtain.) But it did work out for them, I suppose.

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This is a possible pitfall but I’m going to reserve judgement. I would have preferred straight purchase for cash system but this may just have been a way to make transactions easier rather than some sort of mind game currency thing. Its all just speculation till they actually release the thing.

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For me, i still camp my position. With this situation about shillings, i can’t stand for a monetization like that. But one important point would be the cost of the said hard currency.
Hypotheticaly, I really wonder what the potential conversion rate will be?
1€ for 100 shillings? That mean the fancy hats would be 7.5€… It’s the price of a DLC, that would be way too much.
1€ for 1000 shillings? Well, depending on the amount of cosmetic per rotation, you could probably buy all the interesting cosmetics for less than 10€. Well personnaly, i would be ok with that, 10€ every two month would be reasonnable spending to keep the studio running if enough people spend them.
I think a fair bracket between greed and generousity would be between 250-500 shillings for 1€, but i’m torned with this system. The balance can blew up so quick. If too low, the shop can be sold too fast, but more people would be willing to pay a little to unlock a lot but if too high, the backslash will be harder than ever but if there is enough whales, the cash will flow anyway.
For example, you have game like Apex Legends where Legendary skin are sold 18€. For me it’s stupidly overpriced just for one skin, and the amount of predatorous method on this game is horrendous… But it works, money come in, and freeplayer enjoy the game without spending a dime.

For you, what rate would be acceptable?

I mean… if people want to pay 7-10€ per skin then whatever. Just don’t limit how much shillings we can make per week.

I think if you make it too expensive, it’ll be outrageous and no one will buy it. People will get angry and FS won’t make money off of it.

If you don’t make it too expensive, then you’ll be naturally devaluing the cosmetics’ worth. You see someone with a fancy 750 hat and you won’t think “wow that guy saved up for 3 weeks to get that hat.” No, you’ll think “ok he forked out 2 bucks for that hat.”
Not even if they’re cheap, if they make it fairly priced, it’s going to happen.

The best way to make it work is if shilling cosmetics are not purchaseable with real cash. There’d be cash cosmetics, and shilling cosmetics. It’s healthier that way.

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From Season 2 blog post, it would seem like having two types of cosmetics (ones that can be purchasable only with shillings, and those that are cash exclusive) was the initial plan. I don’t know why this sudden idea of introducing a second currency came to play.

But well… they also said that S2 will come out in the first half of January.

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I voted against it but lots of games (especially MMOs) do sell currencies for real money. It’s a way to keep cash flow into the game inbetween content drops.

The only problem I see with this type of game is that there’s simply not enough people playing to sustain the developers like in other games.

Take Elder Scrolls Online. You spend real money on Crowns. You use Crowns to buy cosmetic items, pets, mounts, houses, etc. in their in-game Crown Store. There are also 13 million players in that game and the developers take a year or more to make dlc and expansions. This works for them as there are tons of people playing 24 hours a day and the store is stocked with various different items.

Vermintide 2 doesn’t have a lot of choices in the store plus the player base is quite small. Even if the developers implemented this idea, it still wouldn’t be nearly enough income to sustain them in the long run.

Unless they added unique items in the store like brand new armor skins (and not simply recolors of the same armor), brand new hats, and brand new facial/body customization items (i.e. beards, mustaches, scars, tattoos).

Otherwise, it just won’t work because there isn’t a market for it.

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What would be an acceptable price for a cosmetic? Depends on the cosmetic, and what character its for, also how well is it going to match the cosmetics I have. Also I’ll buy more weapons than outfits but there’s also a huge variance of weapons on each character but only three classes for outfits so what should be more expensive in consideration of how many of them we might end up buying. Idk, I’d probably spend a lot more on cosmetics than most so I think asking me is a bad example. But its not like i’m gonna buy much past the Bardin items and maybe a Merc Krub outfit if its good.

Ideally this never comes up. Shillings and hard currency will hopefully be separate and buy separate things. Because I don’t want there to be a senario in which X dollars are worth Y hours worth of game time in relation to cosmetics.

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To be honest, even if this isn’t by far fatshark lowest, I’m pretty disappointed this is actually something they are considering, after all the times they guaranteed us something like this won’t ever be happening.
I’m disappointed more by the communication issue than the idea itself, which, as many players have pointed out, could be outweighted by free content release, provided the game gets much more support than it has in the last 2 years.

On a personal note, I really dislike how fatshark is edging towards the darker side of gaming: (unnecessary) grind upon grind, catering to the most competitive pool of players (remember “dominate the competition”? And I still have to meet a single player that enjoyed the very high weaves, including players who cleared the challenge and players that are at the very top of it), locking content behind a price for the first time ever - cataclysm and weaves still are - introducing leaderboards and season resets, and now everybody’s favourite: microtransactions.

I feel like they really aren’t seeing what makes the game great: it’s a fun game to play. And yes, it’s got a great learning curve for players who really want to get into it and play the tough stuff. But that’s it. Like it and play it casually, or really “git good” at it. Either way all the grind, all the level ups, make hard for players to just play it. If you want to play cata in vermintide 1 you can do it from the start, and invite other players too. In VT2 to play legend you have to level up a lot. If you want to change career you have to level up a lot again. Getting reds is not mandatory to play high level, but hero power 300 - 350 now - is. There’s so many features that actually try and prevent you from just playing the game.

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Edit
Day is no longer ruined.

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As I said before, if they want to put the option for people to buy cosmetics with money then whatever. I understand that they need some additional income for the development, but they need to make shillings obtainable via other means than time-gated weeklies (which you can finish in 2-3 days and then just do nothing while waiting for weekly reset).

Something like this:
Reward players for every completed match with X shillings. The rewarded amount of shillings would scale with difficulty and the number of Tomes and Grims your team gets (to prevent farming easy difficulties and reward playing more difficult content).


People who want to support FS via microtransactions will still do so.

People who don’t want to support FS won’t pay them anything no matter the MXT model they introduce (but there is a chance that by not introducing a “purely weekly time-gated shilling earning sytsem” FS will start to gain some goodwill and maybe show these people that they still deserve a chance and who knows, maybe get some money from them).

People who don’t want to pay for stuff and want to earn shillings through gameplay will have more opportunities to do so this way (+rep).

and People who want those cosmetics and don’t have time (or don’t want to) grind for shillings will still buy the cosmetics (so FS will not lose anything anyways).

Ok so what the hell.
On the one hand, as discussed ardently in the last few posts, there’s this:

And on the other, there’s this article that came out three hours ago.

Here’s a quote in the article from Martin Wahlund, CEO of Fatshark:

The premium items won’t require you to purchase bundles of currency, either. One of the most egregious microtransaction tricks is selling bundles in increments that encourage players to buy more than they need. If an axe costs 1,000 Bull**** Bucks, chances are the closest bundle will be 1,100 BBs. In Vermintide, it will be done through Steam using regular currency and you’ll be able to purchase the item directly.

Which sounds absolutely great! It was exactly my point and my hope earlier! But what the hell is up with the twitter contradicting this???
At the very least I trust an interview in which Martin himself directly talks about this more than a random twitter that we could be misinterpreting, but still.

Can someone clear this up for good? @Fatshark_Hedge

Credit to reddit user Nialori for finding the article and posting it on the vermintide reddit.

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Yes, so that’s where were at. I think when mentioned on Twitter there was some confusion. Soft currency = shillings, what you can earn in-game. Hard currency = £/$/€/etc, for premium cosmetics.

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image

Tyvm for clearing that up!

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So, there will also be a clear separation between the premium items, and those buyable with shillings? No buying stuff that can be bought with shillings for real money? (Now and in the future…)

Just hearing that would affirm my faith in you guys. I’ll buy some premium stuff out of gratitude if so.

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Well, that confirms what I suspected in an earlier post that the wording in the Twitter is just very vague and poor. So we are where we were at the beginning and as it was always announced.

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So, there will also be a clear separation between the premium items, and those buyable with shillings? No buying stuff that can be bought with shillings for real money? (Now and in the future…)

Just hearing that would affirm my faith in you guys. I’ll buy some premium stuff out of gratitude if so.

There is a very clear separation. Shilling items are shilling items. Premium stuff is premium. There’s no crossover.

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Praise Sigmar and the Sharks for clearing that up. My faith was momentarily shaken.

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