Everyone has already told me xD I was just saying that I watched her interview, as in the woman that does the voice acting for Kerillian. And I’m sure she said, “I thought about what an elf would sound like, and I tried to do an Irish accent”. At least that’s what I remember, she could of very well said she was doing a Scottish accent, which is what Kerillian sounds like, I just remember it as her saying she tried to a Irish accent which she was bad at.
I actually have a few mates from Glasgow and one from Edinburgh, with my family being from Manchester. I’m not saying, nor have I said that Kerillians accent is Irish, lol. Just saying I thought the voice actress said she was trying to do a Irish accent. Didn’t know this would be so controversial lmao…
Did i miss something? I should´ve listed how many times i got called “whiteknight” or “fanboy” in this forum.
It´s no trashtalk to call the system bad and that FS goes on with that and don´t improve anything. It would be tt, if i would start like other guys already did about “Oh FU FU FU FS ioafoihfoishioaufhisughfuiashldhfsdoughahiuohgsd WHY THE F**K ARE THERE NO ILLSUIONS ON THE RED`S you incoajiegfiuashgiosghuishuighsaioasdhfai” etc.
And don´t forget the horror-stories about redshell, their vacation/communication and rare red´s followed by duplicates. And next to the most “trashtalkers” i´m able to say “what is wrong” in my eyes and give out walls of texts of feedback and better design-ideas.
A lot of ppl already did and as we see in the steamcharts, the playerbase still fall quite hard. There are enough reasons to not play the game for the most ppl and yes, that is a real problem in the future.
No… a game like V2 is based on cooperation with other players. It´s a step back to “improve solo - content” with a falling playerbase. That should´ve been the last step with maybe an average of 200 players left.
Oh and i already saw newcomers complaining about “the bots are too strong”. And that´s correct, if they take every kill on lower difficulties and carry games. Must be really fun for new ppl.
Take my opinion like you want, but if you think about many stuff i wrote down in this forum, you should be able to see, that i´m not a hater or something. I do like the game and i want it to get real improved, not that stuff we got with this beta.
The most ppl with 1000h+ , which are still playing, complained, cried, mimi´d, hated, shitstormed FS into the ground in the past.
So yeah… i´m dissapointed that FS cares about them and follows their wishes. Those red´s / bots are just for such players with that amount of playtime, who give af about the rest. “I´ve my grp and all is fine.” They don´t care about the game, they care about themself and their QoL.
FS should give the game a reset. Something like any MMORPG - addon gives their core-games. A higher base-lvl to reach, together with a whole new crafting- / lootsystem. This would be more attractive to newcomers, returner´s and vets. Even if the last guys would start to complain "Oh my red´s, i´ve to farm again blablabla. They still have their skins and the new red´s could come with a new color + then you could act with a red-crafting system. So every 1000+ player would get atleast 1 choiced weapon per character.
It´s so pretty simple to improve the whole game, but for real… this patch (next to the bugfixes) was a whole waste of their time. Real content and major changes to that one-button-RNG- 999+dust -system would´ve been much better, than solo-bots with a social-wheel, any sienna fix which buffs her and more of the current system.
I do know, that the most guys here disagree with me. I already gave my statement, why they do that. But maybe someone from FS will read my stuff and think “Wait guys… it´s not that bad and has some truth. We should take more care about the future of this game/franchise, take our time to make real content and think about our steps more carefully.”
Edit: Just have a look at the beta-section here. Ppl already complain about their red´s, the costs, no illusions etc. They call this BS and FS folks asuidzui etc…
But hey… give af about someone who wants to improve this game and already saw 1 week ago, what´s going to happen with that patch…
The game is doing fine, it was hitting around 4k players all September, and this week it’s been hitting around 4.5k players at peak times.
You do understand that you can sometimes complete an entire run without your game filling up. Having the bots work better is fine. And it’s not like they are not working on other updates just because they fixed the bots.
Yea, god damn fatshark for actually listening to their active fan base and not pandering to new players and watering the game down. Like so many other games do, which alienates their player base and causes tons of issues.
This was a great patch, and from what I’ve seen, most people are really enjoying it and welcoming the changes. There’s a few people upset about not getting a glow on their weapon, and yea, sure. Fatshark can add in some system to unlock illusions or something through a quest. But them adding the current system is in no way a step backwards and was a great update.
I’m curious about the Pyro and unchained buff as well. People are already so salty over Pyro, this should be interesting lol.
You are correct on this point. Nearly every post you do on this forum is completely disregarded by the majority of the community and everyone that disagrees with you ends up with 5-10 heart “upvotes”. Maybe you should take a step back and think on why hardly anyone agrees with anything you say?
No it´s needed to hold the game fresh, add new stuff and big content updates. To “improve” the same stuff over and over again, will be good for the 1000+ players because they already enjoy the current system in some way. (Next step craftable illusions?)
But how many players will be left? How many would buy the next DLC/V3 with a system like that?
It was obvious that the playerbase will rise a bit with the DLC, but even that was a quite low amount.
Yes i know that and that doesn´t make the fact better, that bots are already better than the most players and to hit any “privacy - button” won´t fill other lobbies too.
What is a fan? Someone who call FS “oiahfioh<oi”, becaue they went on vacation and didn´t communicate that with their community? I don´t want a fanbase like that.
Just because players are new doesn´t mean, that they can´t give good feedback. A game needs more than veteran - players to survive.
It´s one for you, because you already wish to get everything right now. You´ve you 10 mates and obviously fun to play with them.
Why should i?
The majority here are the 1000+ players. You guys are probably fine with the current gamedesign and that FS fulfills all of your wishes. But you don´t open your mind for more.
Gamebalance?
RNG?
Craft/Loot - issues?
Playerbase?
“I´ve got what i wanted… my red´s, my cosmetics, my mates, every class on 30 and i´m a progamer at this game. Don´t change anything FS, because i enjoy what i´ve got. Let the game slowly dieing, i´ll go on to play.”
Do you really think i care about upvotes from guys with a small mind? I already told that some days ago.
Why do you think some 10-15 years old games still exist with a strong playerbase? Because they recognized, that big changes are needed. Especially Meta - and Designchanges are responsible to hold the game fresh for every kind of players.
If FS don´t want to expand their game…OK
If guys like you sit around and are fine with the current system…OK
But does that hold me back with my opinion / ideas? NO
Recognize that FS and this long-etablished community throw the chance away to make this franchise bigger and better for more than 100 ppl. If FS goes on that way, it´ll end like V1.
Edit: I´m maybe an arrogant a–hole in your eyes… and maybe i´m one. But i´ll tell my opinion here as long as i´ve got fingers to write stuff down. Start to think about other opinions… it´ll expand your mind and maybe an a–hole like Darth_Angeal could tell some truth.
No one is saying this, I repeat, No one is saying this. This seems to be your own prejudiced opinion of Legend players. I’m not going to bother responding to you anymore… it’s never worked out in the past either. But this statement is just blatantly wrong.
Good job on the patch Fatshark, hope to see more great updates like this going forward. And @Fatshark_Hedge, thanks for looking into the Fireball staff for me. Let me know if you find out anything, we were discussing it again this morning on our discord.
But no one in this thread is saying to do no more changes. There are constantly suggestions, feedback and bug reports flowing in. Saying that a patch is doing good things is in no way stating that the game is fine, because obviously it’s not doing as great it could be. The potential is there but the execution is wonky with weird RNG focused changes, bug reintroduction, disregard of anything learnt in V1 regarding itemisation, etc.
@Darth_Angeal Usually when I see your posts you’re the one who seems resistant to any change under the guise of, “It’ll kill the playerbase”.
Apart from patch specific complaints, there is always an undercurrent of “content drought” which is a fairly cromulent complaint since sometimes it feels like Fatshark considers RNG to be ‘content’.
I think the difference is the prioritisation of issues for players. Mine is Bugs, Content (like maps), ‘Balance’, Loot; but everyone has a different order of priorities.
It´s no prejudice. It´s just an example how some minds work.
And it´s normal that ppl who like something that match their interests / comfortzone don´t want any changes. But is that really good for a game?
The actual way/ design won´t hold a big playerbase. We all saw that already in the past.
And i don´t know which stuff you read anywhere. I gave a lot of different idea´s to change/ expand the current system in the past in many threads. From temp-health and balance - issues over map-design until craft/loot-reworks.
I´m only resistant against some wishes like “give me my red´s / cosmetics faster/ instant”, “give us a cash-shop for cosmetics” etc.
The game don´t have that much to grind and some guys want it instant? PVE-games need rewards over a long time.
That´s ok to have your own priorities. But as you mentioned, ppl have different ones.
This game is hard repeatable and the only way to keep it up, is to redesign a lot of stuff and fix as much bugs as they can.
A lot of ppl complained about bugs / no endgame / no rewards / metagame etc. in the past. Those voices were gone and this forum became empty. I guess those guys left the game, because nothing changed the whole time.
I´m one, who was “ok” with the system, because they were able to expand that. It is just to fast to get max gear and i disliked the “more red´s” patch.
But now FS goes on that way. We got more red´s and stronger bots. For what? More RNG? More chests? More useless crafting-materials? More Soloplay?
They should´ve learned from the past, what the most players wants these days. But they didn´t and the left players in this forum obviously assist that.
It´s ok to like your red´s, it´s ok to have your own priorities. But i still beg FS to concentrate on real major-issues.
Rare red´s or duplicates won´t have been any issue with a better system. FS have to wake up and should stop thinking like “Ok they want a red-crafting-system, let´s go the way without resistance. 5 dust and it´s yours.”
God we can argue about that the next 100 years. I don´t want to take you guys something away. I don´t want to kill that game or shitstorm FS. I´ve got nearly 700h on my own and would´ve had more without my travels. I just saw a lot of games dieing, which i loved, in the last 20 years. This game will earn the same fate, if FS don´t start to work on well thought major updates/changes.
Just have a look at “No man´s sky”. That was an insane change in the right way.
Agreed. In it’s current state, Vermintide 2 will not draw a large amount of players and even those who love it will eventually move to other games. Being realistic though, the genre/style of game that Vermintide is, does not lend itself to having a large consistent player base.
There is a single series that Vermintide directly competes against and uses as its main inspiration. Left 4 Dead was created by a AAA studio that had more resources, developers, time, and money to make. Neither L4D title has the character, weapon, career/talents system that Vermintide 2 does. The series was cared for and updated for a few years before being left to the modding community. Yet currently, its active playerbase is larger than Vermintide’s.
Vermintide is still in active development, it’s a solid game, it needs improvement, and I agree with you that there are many flaws that push players away. I’ve seen your posts in other threads and I can honestly say that your heart and head are in the right place. You’ve had some decent suggestions, but I also see many flaws in the suggestions that you’ve made. When others criticize your suggestions, you argue against the people and their feedback, you talk down to the people, and you rarely take the criticism and attempt to have a discussion that leads to good improvement that both sides agree on and Fatshark can potentially use in their design discussions.
So, in my agreement with you above, systems definitely need long term overhauls. Ones that I personally believe (but have no evidence to support) Fatshark are already discussing in their design meetings. Those overhauls will take time, lots of time. Rewriting or modifying non-modular architectures in code is not easy. I personally have experience in rewriting poorly written architectures and my day job requires that I create systems and architectures that will last 10+ years. Even if Fatshark moved every developer onto system overhauls, it would take probably 6-9 months for them to complete the job. They can’t move everyone away from creating new content and fixing bugs for that long. If they do, many more players will leave.
So how do they actually go about it? They move a few developers, designers, and artists to re-architect the loot, the weeklies, the crafting, etc. More developers, designers, and artists continue to work on DLC, content updates, and yet more developers, designers, and artists are left to fix bugs and major community concerns with the current game. It will take longer for the overhauls to land, but it will keep the community happy and playing while we wait.
The last piece of the above is what I hope (again I have no evidence to backup) we are seeing with these and previous updates. These changes help make the current state of the game more bearable for those that aren’t receiving the content that they want because whether or not they get that content is completely random.
I get that you would rather see the overhauls than temporary solutions, I would too, but I also see how unreasonable it is to expect major overhauls less than a year after the game has shipped (and it doesn’t even have feature parity between PC and consoles yet). I don’t actually know, but from your threads, my conclusion is that you believe these changes are all to support the flawed systems because Fatshark thinks they are okay. I don’t want that to be true, and it would blow my mind if Fatshark does think all of their systems are good, given the number of complaints. I believe they know that some of their systems are flawed and that they are working privately to find solutions to them that players will enjoy in the long run.
To wrap things up, I’m throwing my opinion out here knowing that others might disagree and I welcome their feedback. Someone might point something out to me that I never thought of and I’ll be able to grow. Also my opinion, but I suggest you do the same. Not saying you have to and won’t hold it against you if you don’t.
It´s always a matter “how ppl write down their criticism.”
I´ve already approved, that i´m maybe an arrogant a–hole, but that alteast comes from this community too.
I started here like a lot of other ppl. I made a thread about career-balance.
The most guys started to argue, made fun, posted gif´s etc. and didn´t even really thought about it. (Some of them are still active here.)
1 of them told "Kerillian´s 1-hand sword sucks, you´ve no plan from the game, stop talking etc. "… 3 month later with no adjustments… “I play 1-hand sword on my elf, it´s cool.”
That´s just an example…
The other side are the endless mimimi shitstorm about FS threads. “FS YOU AOIFZZUFSHUISFHUISFHUIH”
and now “Oh FS good job, keep up the good work, we love you.”
The next step is the way of argumentation.:
Spells like: “It´s just a dumb idea.”
The ppl didn´t even really thought about what i or other wrote down.
Ppl think for themself, but not for the whole playerbase / the game.
Gimme 100 of my posts and i could explain you, why i went that way. I´m able to talk to ppl in a friendly and “useful” way, but not without manners in some way. And hey… i´m not perfect on myself.
I´ve mostly a beef with the same persons here, even if i posted stuff to other guys.
Yneftanz posted something about “career-based-temp-health” and i just told, that i don´t think it´s a good idea to force the players in special roles in this game. We didn´t started a beef or something… Maybe he just took it as it is or he ignored it or whatelse. I don´t know.
This whole discussion here is… for me… “oh Darth_Angeal said something… let´s fk it up.” The ppl who replied me, mostly wrote the same, because they probably don´t really thought about, what i wrote or just don´t understand my problem behind it. I don´t know, but as we see in many posts/ threads (not only my stuff), the ppl mostly watch for bad things, things they don´t understand or whereever they disagree.
The best examples are the class-balances. “Play this build and you can slay everything.” Just because that atleast 1 build works, doesn´t mean that game is balanced in it´s weapons/careers. There is an issue to argue about. Why should it help to post some broken/breakpoint builds?
There are so many things that went wrong in those whole discussions. So why should i still try to be kindly to everyone here? Why should anyone else try?
You seem to be the 1st one (atleast in this discussion), who started to think about my arguments, who got the issue behind it and can argue in a normal way.
Just to say atleast… i always try to find a middle-way for eveything/everyone. I had a lot of ideas for some threads, wrote them down and deleted them, just because there would be another big issue instead. So i can´t take ppl serious, who come and argue like “but i want, but i´m fine with that.”
How many realtionships ended, because someone started a conversation with “but”.
There is a reason why i´m mostly write… “think about it, open your mind, get out of the box.”
And yes i know that those stuff needs a lot of thoughts etc. so why should FS waste their time with an expansion of an already cheap system? They can do so much more, if they would start to think about it and take their time to program those stuff. A cheap design seems to be a short solution, but in the end, it won´t hold for long and a lot of players have more stuff to cry about. (Illusions this time.)
FS just runs from 1 issue into the next. They don´t really think about the aftereffects of their decisions. It seems so atleast.
I already told that my idea´s aren´t perfect, but i´m pretty sure that they´re better for everyone, than the current system. Everything seems to be better.
While I can relate to the general gist of what you’re saying, I’m still a bit lost to what it is exactly that you propose? You’re talking about breakpoint builds and balance. It’s like saying that chess isn’t balanced - the queen is OP, the knights are annoying little jumping buggers, and the bishops are underwhelming because they can’t change color. Isn’t it all about how you use each of the piece and how they work together? I always thought about VT builds in the same way - it is ok that all the builds are good at something and suck at something else - isn’t that the idea? If it wasn’t, then you should have 4 identical characters and spread the weapons around the map randomly for them to pick it up. But then again, people will say it is boring oldfag crap - go play L4D.
I mean, what is the exact approach to balancing complex numerical systems like character builds? I’d say it is empirical incremental nerf/buff round after round. But this kind of stuff should be done in playtesting before release, because now every little change generates a brown storm among the players who already internalized the mechanics.
In the end, what is ‘balance’? How would you know you need to stop tweaking stuff? The best answer I have to this would be that a skilled player should be able to fill any role in the team with any character if required. In this case yeah, good luck killing bosses on FK or IB.
Maybe I’m wrong, and it is a designed incentive to go out and join forces with shades, bounty hunters and huntsmen. In this case, is the game balanced? If you broaden the criteria to “every team of 4 people should be able to complete every map on a reasonable for their skill difficulty regardless of what career they choose”.
Anyway, that’s my take on the balance stuff - I was consciously avoiding the subject due to its complexity and the lack of agreement on the terms required to talk about it. I personally think that the game is not balanced, but its the criteria choice that is more important before we start talking about it.
I don’t mean builds overall. I mean the gap between careers, who can run nearly everything (pyro) and careers, who need their special weapon / build to work well. (WHC)
That’s a big balance-issue for me.
On the other hand… that was just the probably best example for " that’s how discussions shouldn’t work" , if you compare it with the endless balance- threads and how they end in this forum.
And some guys still wonder , why i won’t take some guys here that serious and talk down to them.
It sounds to me like you’re asking for seasons ala diablo 3. Those give cosmetics/ frames (a reason to play) & the loot exists in the season before being converted over to non-seasonal characters.
The benefit of season play is a reset, character balance tweaks & seasonal modifiers… think of chaos warriors have 50% more hp or something.
I like this idea because it gives continual goals & rewards for each season, and each season is slightly different. You could have rewards of your character frame in the keep being filled with a picture, or special cosmetics only available to that season. Plus all the equipment progression converts over to non-seasonal. It gives people the option of how they want to play, and options can keep people motivated & interested.
I played a lot diablo and yeah i mean something like that. Otherwise an increase of the hero power with new stuff could come along with each DLC.
Just something that brings more “long-time-motivation” to the whole playerbase.
They should make a new diff above legend. Way waaaay above legend. When pkaying in this realm hero power should be able to be enhanced through better items etc. Power shouldnt be capped but neither should enemy hp, dmg, horde size etc. It should rather follow hero power, so the more power the more diff.
That’s what g-rifts are there. V2’s gameplay is much better and more skill depended. Diablo lives with paragon lvl and items.
But the overall system from diablo would be a gift for V2.
