Don’t know, it’s opposite to me, I tend to chuck Krak grenades often, because they usially regen faster than the situations demand it, while I also keep hoarding frags for Rager and Mauler spam waves, because in my experience getting separated and killed by melee elite goon squads is the number 1 cause of wipes.
I throw bleed grenades at ragers and maulers and anytime i see someone chucking krak grenades at nothing i always laugh because theyre only meant for armor and bosses. Most krak users i see throw krak grenades at single enemies all game or bosses and even then you only get two at a time. Krak grenades are beyond situational
In this game and the only time ive really found them useful is monster only or melee only and even then i still play with bleed grenades. Then again im never playing with something that cant deal with crushers or bulwarks or bosses anyway. I just dont see the point in playing with a grenade for the sole
Purpose of dealing with those enemies and it being my only way to deal with those enemies when bleed grenades with demo team get infinitely more value in games.
Rarely ever do you lose a game to 5 crushers in your face you lose games when you get swarmed by specialists and elites and thats where bleed nades get value. I watch people who play with kraks throw kraks at single enemies like were playing some low intensity malice missions meanwhile were playing maelstrom. I will never be the type of player who throws a single krak grenade at a reaper or a bulwark in a maelstrom mission. You lose games when you get swarmed by 12 ragers and shotgunners and flamers and bombers and thats where bleed grenades shine in this game.
Rarely ever do krak grenades shine when you have the potential to wipe and rarely ever are two kraks without grenade tinkerer helpful in my games.
Crushers single handedly make the game unfun. Everyone’s build has to address a mob that’s a minority of the map, with it making most weapons nonviable.
If you play HSTG and Maelstroms, it’s very common you see patrols of 8+ crushers, multiple times a map. You cannot just ignore them in your build. I wish they had a weak spot or just took longer to kill, not outright remove multiple items from the game. Otherwise I wish Thunderous or a similar blessing was available for all melee items.
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Krak grenade players are never dispatching of 5-10 crushers quickly in my games because most of them arent playing with grenade tinkerer and even then they have to be ontop of eachother for you to even kill two of them at a time. half the time people throw krak grenades the crusher is already dead or it targets the ground cuz kraks have awful targeting which i always find hilarious. Krak grenade users are only ever killing one crusher at a time which as i stated is not helpful when 12 walk down the stairs.
My point is that when you see 8+ crushers krak grenades are never the answer because me throwing 2-3 bleed nades and bleeding and staggering them all is infinitely more value than a krak grenade user maybe killing two of them outright because you still have to deal with the other 10. Also i dont ever worry about bulwarks cuz i either open them up with voice and kill them with my braced autogun or I knock them over and shoot them anyway.
the thing is any lasgun can 1 tap most specials at max difficulty in this game, so people are left to build to deal with the next stronger things, such as armored elites or mutants
but while you can easely deal with mutants in melee, armored are best approached with ranged
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How do crushers make the game unfun when theyre some of the least threatening enemies in the game? My MK VII sapper shovel can two tap crushers in the face. My chain axes can one tap crushers with a revved heavy. Crushers are not dangerous and I dont get where people think theyre anymore annoying than bulwarks which I genuinely hate. When I see a group of crushers I throw 2-3 shredder grenades at them and kill them with my shovel special. Also crushers are only ever annoying if you dont have a way of dealing with them or if youre like these krak users and just dont have a grenade which is why you should never rely on a grenade to kill something because the moment you see 4 of them youre screwed. If also find it hilarious half the people i see playing with kraks are running power swords or plasma guns that can absolutely destroy crushers. Far too many people are terrified of crushers which is hilarious cuz bombers and flamers and trappers and dogs are infinitely more dangerous.
I mean, they can target the other crushers that does not have a krak grenade on them with other parts of their kit.
The only real reason to run krak grenades, bulwark groups. Bonus if you have someone to gather them up aswell.
If I’d give a reason as to why, I’d wager it was that melee is scary and since you are (most of the time) regaining grenades with Demolition Stockpile talent and do not see it as a cost to use them against crushers, where as using ammo would be seen as a cost.
By design, they are big and intimidating. But at best they are a smoke screen for specialists as you’ve said.
Following OPs suggestion or removing rending altogether would certainly reduce build variety, which i think is a bad thing.
On the other hand, dedicated anti-armor weapons would feel more meaningful.
Ehhhh, i see pros and cons from both sides of this issue. Can’t really decide which is the best.
why do people even try a stupidly pointless flex you can easily view with any of the scoreboard mods that can specify mob. average is 20, you see crusher patrols if you encounter more. unless you do melee maelstrom on repeat, crusher is still the least common enemy encountered.
even if there were 5 in a map it wouldn’t change my argument, small arms have no right to behave like this in any circumstance, revolver included
plasma gun is a different story
this is true it has to be replaced with something else
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Just wanna point out onslaught would be absolutely worthless melee only. Even if it takes you 8 attacks to kill an enemy (lmao so common) you’d get an average of 8.75% rending per strike which is… hilariously bad and only gets worse with less strikes to kill an enemy.
In consideration of the genuine build cost most guns that would want it pay to get it, I think it’s genuinely pretty well balanced in the current game state.
I understand disliking rending in these quantities in general, but in that case better to replace the talent entirely than restrict it to melee.
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removing rending from onslaught would make marksman focus finally usefull
the onslaught path is always superior and you can get focus fire on top of that which is superior to MF hands down, and its tax free because is next to bring it down and rending strikes which are non negotiables either way
at this point rending guns is about the only thing veteran sharp’shooter’ does better with guns than the other 2.
also this other guy in diff threads: veteran needs buffs
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why not even on this thread?
they are just annoying when they steal your melee kills with their ranged i might add
what is expected from vet traditionally is to deal with gunners, snipers and bombers in an efficent way, also to thin off mixed hordes with lots of armor in it
Vets tree is still bloated and without Onslaught they would surely find good places to allocate those 4 perk points you would gain
this is why i’m confident this change would not hinder my favorite class in any way shape or form
Nonsense. Going left for MF is already a much better choice for IAG, Laspistol, probably Recon too honestly though less sure on that. You get way more DPS on everything except crushers going MF over onslaught, brauto and auto pistol are the only guns I can think of that go for onslaught, and even then what you trade to get onslaught on brauto is very questionable and not clear cut a worthwhile trade.
So at the moment onslaught, I believe, mostly elevates auto pistol and graia brauto, and otherwise gets frequently ignored to get wider benefits than just extra crusher damage. I very much fail to see an issue with it elevating two mid to bad weapons while otherwise being often skipped for better things 
Shooting crushers with a brauto is a fun novelty that at least gives Vet something decently unique they can do with their guns. It’s hardly game breaking or even a competitive option frankly.
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yeah MF is pretty OK after the buffs to make it not expire instantly for the crime of moving shortly after putting away your gun. it does the whole shooting and melee reward thing a lot better than the other side without having horrible side effects like losing stacks for switching.
and if I’m on the right side I’m usually running for the melee stuff, which they moved onslaught away from.
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i disagree, carapace should be stub and las proof
and i’m not convinced MF is superior, maybe you don’t feel it cause laspistol and columnus V are specifically critting like crazy for no reason compared to the other weapons of their kind
they are both broken, i played them on my gun psyker and felt leagues better than playing with veteran
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Go test it yourself then. The guns I listed, which would all otherwise be prime candidates for onslaught, get much better DPS on every non crusher target with MF over Onslaught.
I understand it’s immersion breaking to kill carapace with light weapons, I’m fine with that argument, sympathetic even.
It’s just that any suggestion that onslaught is meta or a balance problem is wrong, it’s rarely ever optimal pathing, or better than just dealing with crushers with any of many other options. I just think you’re overhyping its practical strength to the moon and back.
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