There is a disconnect between how the Ogryn plays and how you imagine he would play. While he does have good damage reduction it does not scale well against the damage output of enemies on damnation. Just like every other class it comes down to dodge, sliding, pushing, some crowd control, toughness regeneration and situational awareness. Having abyssmal melee damage on most of his other weapons that are not cleavers does indeed feel out of place.
To me it feels like the best defense is a good offense, which doesn’t really feel right for the shield or CC weapons on higher difficulties. It feels like too much of a liability to take too long to kill stuff which just makes playing defensively more dangerous for the team. I’m honestly not sure how I would tweak that dynamic because it’s not only ogryn with a myriad of ‘more CC, less damage’ weapons to choose from.
For me I don’t think it’s that ogryns feel weak on damnation exactly, so much as it doesn’t feel like quite as “ogryny” to be doing a ballet of sliding and darting around carefully when dealing with an area of spread out ranged targets (which aren’t exactly rare). Positioning being important makes sense but it feels a little ‘too important’ for the tank, IMO.
IMO, if the shield could be fixed to be accepted by the community at large I think it’d go a long way towards figuring out how to make builds that aren’t only focused on ‘more power, more damage’ work for all classes.
Yes, you are right in that offense is key. When you kill an enemy it is handled and will pose no threat to you anymore and a crowed controlled enemy is a problem for later or for someone else to handle. Time is also a resource for the group and you should indeed try to be as efficient as possible while moving forward to complete the mission and that is by doing more damage and taking out problems fast.
While I get what you’re getting at and what your vision here is and the vision in of itself is cool, there is the problem that it just makes it all too easy.
Yes, sure. It would be great of Ogryn was even more different from everyone else, stronger and hardier.
But you’re debating here really bringing the Pox Hound down a tier.
It would immediately make runs almost unloseable in proportion to how many Ogryn you brought in.
I agree with John here, more. It’s not the Ogryn himself, it’s most of his melee toolkit that needs some touching up.
Most of it is great, just lacking in one area or another.
One thing I’d kinda like to see is all melee weapons being able to block some ranged damage on ogryn. Not a ton, just enough to be useful situationally. Being slidey-boi on an ogryn kinda ruins my immersion
Wtf is this thread even.
Ogryn is in a great place atm, i am surprised we keep getting buffed lmfao.
Stating that “The Zealot has him beat in almost all aspects, whether it be horde clear, damage, or survivability. He’s really only good at objectives with his uninterruptable perk.” is just outright wrong and reading that sentence alone just gave me various kinds of nurgle plagues.
Citation needed. Also being least played it doesn’t make it weak.
The only cover affected really are all those little supplementary objects you can find in the open, which occassionaly grant you cover. Enemies don’t “aim” at you, its all aimbotting and wallhacking all the way anyway.
“Thick Skin” (one of the Iconics) could use a buff…maybe. I’m not a fan of making it able to deal with disablers by itself.
A lot of problems with Ogryn lie with its weapons. Few are really powerful, whilst others just lag behind / are overspecialised.
Ogryn hacking meta is the funnies thing to happen to Darktide.
You can write any class in the search bar and you´ll find dozens of threads around them. Maybe not about Vet at all since those are mostly disguised behind “Powersword…”.
Ogryn is pretty much the last thing a lot of players talk about, atleast on this forum. It might speak for your “popularity”-claim, but this has also different reasons than the class being weak.
Ogryns are just fat babys and ugly af. This makes them already outstanding and least played in general. I just need to pick an example of 3 friends… 2 play Ogryn because it´s fun and they´re deep in the 40k lore. The 3rd will never touch it for the reason i claimed.
It´s definately not just “It´s not the tank i haven´t expected to be, so i´m not gonna play it.”.
Are you an average player?
Ogryn has huge basestats, the most wounds, health and even passive damage reduction. This already outweighs the cons it has due to its size.
Just for you:
+20% Toughness Damage Reduction & +20% Health Damage Reduction.
Being damaged while Reviving or Assisting allies no longer interrupts you.
+50% Coherency Radius.
+10% Damage Resistance per Bleeding Enemy in Melee range. Stacks 5 times.
Hard As Nails
-20% Damage Taken for each ally currently Knocked Down or Incapacitated that is within 20 meters.
+100% Toughness replenishment while below 25% health.
Replenish 10% Toughness per Bull Rush Hit.
And even the 3 base-toughness feats are pretty decent and assist different weapons or teamplay very well. Feats like “Hard as Nails” or “Die Hard” might need some rework since they´re an a niche you never want to reach. But it´s comparable to some of the feats Zealot sits on.
And in general there are some obvious pathings that match together very well, suit different weapons and help you to survive easily. But ofc, you still need to use dodge and so…
Noone says it have to be a weapon, just throw that grenade-bundle on a boss. You could also go for bleed and stack all day long, it does its job over time.
It might be no thunderhammer you can charge up again and again. But given to the tankyness an Ogryn sits on, the easy waveclear thanks to huge stagger combined with some single-target burst damage you´ve always available for bad situations is a really good combination in general.
And once you´re somewhat good at the games basic, Ogryn will not play much different than other classes, but still sits on the tankyness.
And you claim i´ve no experience on the class, when you don´t even know passive traits or feats that make you tankier etc… sorry but those are no real arguments.
As i´ve said before, there are dozens of poeple handicap the whole group. I mostly just have to see the character of someone to know which kind of player sits behind it. Damnation is even easier these days than heresy since the poeple there mostly know what to do instead of those players farming materials.
Ogryn is completely fine as it is. Some tweaks to stuff like the 2 feats i claimed might be needed. Weapon- and blessingbalance needs more deeper looks than bandaids in general on any class aswell, b ut there is no reason to overbuff Big Daddy with what you claimed to be “sensible”.
QTE´s are the worst thing in dozens of games since they either don´t fit what´s happening or interrupt the gameflow in general. It might be a great thing in story-driven games like Heavy Rain, but not in general.
If anything FS could place rare-items in the first 50% of each map with a one-time use. So whoever find it could for example wear a belt with a little shockwave which is automatically used once the next hound is sitting on them, but that´s it. There shouldn´t be some permanent stuff you can use whenever you want, you´ve a team to play with. Let disabler to their job and if things go heavily nuts, then they should go nuts and not be carried by gimmicks all day long.
We really don´t need more “fixes” everytime someone shows up like “but this is annoying to me…”. It´ll just take any skill out of the game and makes it pretty stale and boring fast.
Ironbreaker in V2 had a passive/feat combination, which triggered on getting hit and was on a cooldown, that did pretty much this.
Of course having this type of ability always on is pretty effing busted, but it’s also not entirely out of the realm of possiblilities.
I do want to point out that you’d need another feat to get the most out of Bloodthirst. Tying it to heavy attacks, having something alive and in melee range to gain the benefits from and it stacking up to five times to get the full benefit is not ideal. As you pointed out, the stagger and cleave are most likely giving more to survivabilty then bloodthirst could even hope to achieve.
Unsure if I’d say claiming that having the limited grenade, with matching feat to be a good baseline for boss damage. That said, would still say that Ogryn is fine in regards to being able to damage bosses.
Meh, if there was no siloing I would probably do all of my grinding as Ogryn. He has high access to toughness which is the real killer, and even more HP potentially than 2 players and backed up with massive damage reduction. All of his weapons disrupt every enemy type except mutant. The only way I can get similar survival on Zealot is if I use that regen HP during resist death feat which exposes me to all the hitstuns I despise. Ogryn really does get the best of everything along with ranged you just get to point in the general direction of the enemy as lore dictates. Incredible fun and reliability ensues.
Some weapons have really bad cleave damage, every one should have working headshots wtf how has this not been fixed and shield needs to do something. Other than that I’d look at how slow some heavies still are like Mk 3b/Mk 6, with everything getting sped up around them these horde only attacks are terrible. Actually big swings from clubs are kinda underwhelming in general with 3 target limit, same with shovel.
They are not lacking in damnation difficulty, they are just stupid. Being an ogryn in damnation means a constant game of slidey poo while using precision range constantly. It’s like the opposite of ogryn concept.
Your claim reminds me of the endless Zealot -gunner threads where poeple just don’t know how to push or are too feared to do so.
I don’t even use dodgeslide, often not even normal sliding… yet i’m fine with Ogryn on damnation without a minigun aswell.
Just use kickback which staggers pretty much everything even on high range and then go in.
Or play ultimate cdr and the longer range., extra toughness if you might struggle a bit etc… in all cases, just move and dodge as usual.
The developers were clearly afraid to make him too strong. To compensate his large health pool and damage reduction they gave him a lot of trash feats whose effect you wont notice in the game.
As mentioned above, this class has only one effective and at the same time uninteresting build. The choice of feats limits your choice on the next rows too much.
Ogryn’s 30 lvl feats provide significantly less benefits than other classes.
I like the idea of getting rid of the grip using class ability. This is one way to give players sense of power that they expect from ogryn gameplay. This could be a replacement for the useless Bull Gore. At the same time, new feat shouldn’t be too limited in its application and should encourage its use.
Last breath - Bull Rush can stack 3 times. Using Bull Rush removes all stacks and increases your damage reduction by 15% for 5 second per stack and reduces the cooldown by 15% for each stack removed. The ability can be used while immobilized if you release 3 stacks.
If only one feat could be changed when I would include in Bombs Away! an ability to get grenade for killing 350 enemies. It’s a pity that such fun talent uses once or twice per mission if you haven’t veteran with certain feat in the team.
Ogryn is incredibly well balanced, with minor outliers in the Bull Butcher perhaps being a bit too much (bringing back the maniac weakness it briefly had might bring it back in line with the clubs and power maul) and the shield being the worst weapon in the entire game.
That said, I will echo the fact that his feats are notably boring. Perhaps tweaking the bleed feats and adding more centered on bleeds could spice things up a little.
lol this is false of course. I use kickback all the time. Super fun, Super horrible. Just because the team made it does not mean you did well.
Kickback is incredibly strong, here’s me using Shovel + Kickback on Damnation and crushing the scoreboard at the end.
And i guess if i would claim something different, you would play it all day long aswell just to underline your “argument”? First stupid poo-sliding gunners, now the horrible kickback, what´s next?
Dunno why you don´t play something else then if it´s so horrible anyway…
You know when you did well or not, there is not even a scoreboard needed. If you don´t know without it or think someone automatically sucked because they did less damage, then you´re probably not as good as you believe by yourself. The game is more than “I did kills, i did damage, me super!”.
Kickback is pretty strong besides the obvious drawbacks it has. It´s just more of a supportive gun than a killing machine where you hold LMB and call it a day.
Kickback allows you:
- To deal easily with ragers / mutants.
- To heavy-stagger pretty much everything on any range, no matter of if it´s the sniper at the end of the room or the pack of Ogryns right in front of you.
- Can decimate a horde pretty good.
The gun is well-balanced and the general performance really good. Its also a decent “game-safer” since you can deal pretty good with bad spawns thanks to the massive stagger.
And the reason i claimed it above is, that it assists pushing very well. So no… you don´t have to play the poo-slider all day long. And if you miss the purpose like "shooting against gunners to stagger, using bullrush as gapcloser just to melee the enemies down as what you consider “an Ogryn´s job”, then i don´t know what else to tell you.
It´s also another thing that too many poeple sit on their ultimates instead of using them. And then they cry that the class sucks or the ultimates are useless… but that´s another topic.
You failed to dodge-slide, no chance this is damnation without dodge-slide… it´s just not possible to play Ogryn without dodge-slide on this difficulty. You obviously got carried, git gud!
You obviously have no experience with the class. Why are you even in this thread when you don’t play as Ogryn at all? One thing I can’t stand is naysayers who just jump into a thread to derail it because they have nothing better to do. Stick with what you know, because you’ve clearly never used any of these Feats effectively.