Ah I get ya. Like 0.5m radius full damage blast kinda thing. That could be super cool.
4 Likes
Yeah, something like that. Solves the problem and keeps the weaon unique.
2 Likes
Comments like this make me want to ask you how tall your zealot is. Iâve never had to jump to land a charged hit that I actually wanted to land, and my zealot is on the shorter side. In any case, character height having an impact on gameplay is not a weapon specific issue.
Also, if I didnât make myself cleear, crusis shouldnât be buffed because itâs already strong enough. The weapon does not warrant further buffs.
Before patch 13, horde clear was always a problem that you somehow had to compensate for with your ranged weapon if you didnât want to just pass that responsibility to your team. It isnât anymore. The thunder hammer of old, where each heavy swing killed one and only one poxwalker (which admittedly was slow) does not exist anymore.
If the tradeoff isnât worth it to you, which clearly seems to be the case, then just run ironhelm.
Huh?
If you read through my post history, youâll find exactly the opposite. Iâve talked about thunder hammer needing either an overhead charged attack or some sort of AoE explosion/cleave before we even got the ironhelm. Fatshark didnât design the thunder hammer in a way that I agree with, and I donât think their solution to the problem (ironhelm) is a particularly good one either.
Anyway, if you think 1-shot gimmicks is all the crusis hammer is better at, youâre just selling it short. Crusis demonstrably has an easier time hitting relevant breakpoints than ironhelm. It also has an attack pattern that doesnât require block cancelling to avoid an inconveniently placed heavy 3. I prefer it for those reasons. We also plain disagree that ironhelm is somehow clearly superior - in fact I think itâs probably worse on balance.
That will now be following your pushattack⌠youre welcome! * 
*
Yeah⌠like I said, I wanna see it in action before I pass judgement.
Iâm not sure to what extent the next patch will move around breakpoints either. Patch 13 already did substantial work there, and from what I can tell itâs all about to shift under our feet again.
Iâm just whining. Iâm sure it will be fine. More animation canceling required and less pushattacking, but not a huge deal.
Granted⌠i prefer it as it is haha
Letâs be frank, this would be easy to solve:
- Crucis regular heavy remains the sweeping attack
- Crucis charged heavy is the same overhead bonk as the light currently is.
There. Crucis now does exactly what it should - acting as a single-target headshot eliminator - without the annoyance of a single poxwalker ruining your shot and leaving you vulnerable.
2 Likes
The correct fix is to change the activator so that you have to activate mid swing. Closer you are to impact the more damage you get, no damage for missing the window. You get rid of the clunky activation animation that literally nobody likes and ruins the pacing of the weapon. Recoil animation is fine as itâs an opportunity cost and you can control exactly when it happens.
The extra animation cost of all of the various activatable weapons is just bad gameplay design IMO that takes away from what is fun about the game and melee combat. They are all basically a âfun taxâ put upon these weapons instead of balancing them properly.
1 Like
somebody get ranarok101 a job over at fatshark immediately
Was replying to someone else who said that Jump shotting was a skill requirement on the Crucis.
I agree with you. However they still do it much slower compared to many other melee weapons.
Why did you disagree with me and than agree with me 2 sentences later?
Why didnât you just say this from the beginning? Suggest a different way to change it? I would have much rather talked about this than arguing about minute details.
Also from anecdotal evidence I have yet to see a Crucis player that made me impressed in anything besides boss damage. Again just from personal experience so itâs not a fact, just I think that the break points arenât that much harder to hit on the Ironhelm, which makes it a better and debatably a more skilled weapon to use.
Heavy 2 into light 1 is the best way to go for horde clear and lets you mix in the heavy 3s for priority targets. Crucis has an easier time hitting breakpoints, but once those breakpoints are met it is just a more inconvenient Ironhelm.
Going back to a comment you made earlier Iâll wait and see how the changes work. I think itâs disingenuous to brush off my concerns just because Iâm âunhappy with upcoming changes.â
Even if you insist on throwing out powered attacks the lock out is so non existent now if you hold block or even loop another special. In fact for general use the Hammer is so strong Iâd say Thrust and Skullcrusher are your best bet.
Skullcrusher being bugged like always, will greatly beef the attack of your powered up lights during stagger state such that a simple heavy to knock them down and a zap bonk will dispatch basically everything up to mauler and crusher. This is also why I canât advocate for the Ironhelm at all. After the next update Iâm pretty sure just a zap L1 will do 1400 damage no blessings nodes or perks.
Allright, it was included in a reply to me, but weâll just move on then.
Youâre going to have to explain that one to me. Seems to me like youâre just taking me out of context.
Iâm not necessarily looking for it to be changed. At this time (read: after patch 13), I think thunder hammer has already received all the buffs it can handle. In fact, I think you and I just fundamentally disagree on how strong a weapon the (crusis) thunder hammer is - both in isolation and in relation to how strong weapons should be in general.
Ironically, the charged horizontal heavy is probably the ironhelms best horde clear move. In any case, I like the space you can create by chaining heavys as opposed to heavy-light. Iâll agree with you that breakpoints arenât as hard to reach as they used to be - one-shotting a mutant (from a cold start) with an ironhelm is one of the big ones that is now notably easier to reach, for example. Crushers are still a pain point for me, but the next patch looks like it will change thing further, so who knows, the ironhelm may improve (in relation to crusis) further still.
You mean like itâs disingenuous to suggest that everyone who disagrees with you is just stubbornly refusing to realize the truth because theyâve been coping for too long?
Did some preliminary testing on my Crucis and Ironhelms. They are not godrolled by any means (I still have yet to find Thrust 4, sadly), but there are now 3 critical breakpoints that distinguish my Crucis from my Ironhelm: Crushers, Scab Ragers, and Maulers.
With Thrust 3, Fury of the Faithful, and hitting weakpoints, my Crucis will 1 shot Maulers and Scab Ragers and 2 shot Crushers. Meanwhile, my Ironhelm will 2 shot Maulers and SCab Ragers and 3 shot Crushers.
Iâm not sure whether an absolutely godrolled Ironhelm will achieve the same breakpoints as an absolutely godrolled Crucis, but at least for my personal armory, Crucis now has a definitive spot as a mauler/crusher deleter vs my Ironhelmâs more consistent bonks.
I will need to do testing because I cannot predict the changes. But my last round of breakpoint review my absolutely nutso godrolled Ironhelm was able to hit the same exact breakpoints on everything. That may have changed. But that still doesnât make the Crucis good in my view because it still suffers from severe usability issues. Basically the jury is still out and I will report back.
Also, just an aside here, but I am not at all sure I am happy with the change to the ironhelmâs push attack pattern. I donât understand the logic of it in the first place. If I wanted easier access to the overhead I certainly wouldnât have put it in the push attack. I would have created a light-heavy chain or something for it. The ironhelm is the hammer WITH powered cleave. The overhead is only useful as an on the fly special snipe, but it shouldnât make my weapon worse at horde clear to get it. Now I get stuck on overheads constantly, there is no easy horde clear heavy pattern. I am forced to use the heavy light pattern for reliable sweeps or accept the 3rd heavy overhead. Jury is out, will be testing. But immediate impression is highly negative.
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Shame. I was hoping they wouldnât change that attack pattern in the end.
The (heavy) attack pattern of the Ironhelm is just awful in patch 14. I canât get used to it for the same reason that Reginald has already stated.
I like the Crucis attack pattern much more but having the charged attack completely eaten whenever some trash runs into the screen is indeed annoying. Skill issue my assâŚ
If we could modify the attack patterns of weapons somehow, Iâd gladly take an Ironhelm Hammer and choose the Crucis attacks.
2 Likes
It really feels like a confusing choice. If any weapon needed a heavy overhead it wss crucis, but ironhelm had powered cleave so why put more focus on normie overheads? This change screams âvermintide 2 veteranâ to me, rather than 40k darktide veteran.
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I just played with it and itâs awful. Being unable to chain pushattack to the heavy 2 just messes up the horde management of this weapon terribly. The heavy 3 hits hard, but itâs not hard enough to make it better than the heavy 2. Throughout the mission, despite the huge number of special on auric stg, I found it coming in handy like once and every other time I was wishing it was the old sweep.
@FatsharkQuickpaw @FatsharkJulia @FatsharkLev
Who do we need to talk to about reverting to the previous combo?
2 Likes
Imo both the versions should be buffed
Thatâs my bad.
You responded to me not liking how the Crucis only overhead attack being a light attack should just have me not use and and use the Ironhelm, and then later you say the Crucis should have a charged overhead heavy. You couldâve just agreed with me lol.
I guess. Again ancedotal evidence has me seeing the Crucis be a mid weapon, while the Ironhelm is much better with a higher skill (I guess because people struggle with it?) to hit certain break points. Again I really donât think giving it minimal cleave would ruin game balance. We have the revolver for that already.
That is a fair point, and Iâll apologize for saying that. I just cannot wrap my head around people who think the Crucis is somehow far superior to the Ironhelm, and why they think giving it either an overhead charge or some sort of cleave ruins the identity of the weapon. I did not expect this thread to get this much push back so it confused me. Also didnât help that Alsozara started the replies off rather antagonistically.
While I havenât tried it out yet, apparently the Ironhelm combo changes are horrible so maybe your point earlier will turn out to be true lol.
Getting some mixed signals here, do you want the Hammers to remain as they are mechanically? Or would you like them to be changed in some way?