Idk who you are replying to but nobody is saying the game must be made one way.
Nobody is saying that flying enemies are necessary?
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So what about the indoor maps, where the fighting is done under spaces where monster struggle to get into already.
And you do have a âflyingâ enemy already in the game, with the disabler from the Beâlakor modifiers.
This is actually decent question.
The caves in the game are large enough for even chaos warrior-sized flying enemies honestly, so I donât think those would be a problem.
The Sewer Maps are quite open, with some areas being much more roomy than others.
For tight corridors, I had a quick think and came up with two ideas:
- The flying enemies (like the harpy) are designed so they can land and follow the players through tight spaces and corridors
- The flying enemies make their way to the next open area and meet the players there
I think the first option is the most sensible. It ties in with the idea that they would be forced to land anyway as a cooldown to provide the players the opportunity to melee attack. They could even receive a buff upon voluntarily landing that makes them a bit tougher to kill.
I also think it would also feel way more dynamic and immersive if they were scaling the walls (or at least partially) while chasing the players through corridors or caves. Think of the Rock Drakes from Ark: Aberration and the way those chase after the players, those were very cool. In this game the flying enemy could be capped at a height when scaling walls, or maps could be updated to ensure they could only scale certain walls and ceilings, to ensure that the players can still reach them via melee.
The second option probably ties in nicely with existing mechanics where current enemies are able to climb over large parts of the map and scale walls to meet the player in closed off areas.
There are probably a few more options others can think off, but even with these two ideas it can definitely work with a bit of design consideration.
I donât know if there is some story behind those skulls and Beâlakor, but they come across as too silly/aracadey in my opinion. The design of the skulls donât really feel like they hold enough weight to be considered a proper âflying enemyâ, where as a harpy would have a proper design and visually would look a lot more robust, and could also be introduced into current or upcoming adventure mode maps.
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Food for thought buddy, try some!
Did you consider wing span ?
That would probably require a redo of all the maps though. VT2 was not made with flying enemies in mind, I doubt that the adaptation would be possible or made.
There are things I think should be added, and would add new gameplay challenges:
- Skaven
- Plague Censer Bearer: Higher Elite (Chaos Warrior tier), charge from mid range swinging their Censer around knocking foes and friends alike, and possibly then slamming it down to the ground
- Warp Grinder: Special, unlike other Specials, can delve into the ground (only certain areas), and come out in great shock and awe. And spawning some Clanrats
- Eshin Triad: Elite, Trio of Clanrats with glaives/spears, and having the ability to dodge out of the way from melee or ranged attacks
- Warplock Enginseer: Lord (or monster), armed with Warplock Pistols, Warp casters and the whole shebang
- Norscan
- Whaler: Elite, mid ranged elites, but slower rof than the Beastmen Archer
- Skin Wolf: Monster, Werewolf are cool
- Beastmen
- Bovigor: High Elite; like a Bestigor, but more set about being a chunky sack of health and being a general tank and danger to those that donât want to dodge (Cow headed)
- Pestigor: Monster, cause curse on melee attacks, could even be given some lore of Nurgle stuff
- Brays: trash/horde, Skavenslave/Fanatic equivalent
- Incarnate of Beast: Lorewise Iâm against it, but CA/TWW did it so eh
Imo having quadruped would have been cool, sad that it couldnât be made to work
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As I already said, the current maps are more than open enough in most areas.
That is just plain incorrect.
The devs would have to paint zones around the terrain of the maps where they would allow the flying enemies to scale walls. It would require some development time to update current maps yes, but the whole maps do not require a âredoâ as you put it. My best guess is that it would be more like a patch to existing terrain to support the new enemy type. I am sure there are other more efficient solutions as well (the devs know a lot better about developing their game than us).
I also mentioned the flying enemies could be designed for upcoming maps, meaning existing maps simply wouldnât get them.
Most of the ideas here probably would not be made, except from flying type enemies. It wouldnât surprise me if FatShark decided to add something like that in future. It just feels different enough it would make a meaningful content update.
The wall scaling thing also seems very possible. We already see the enemies can traverse the terrain, so my best guess is that there would be no engine limitation. That being said it was just an idea to make the gameplay more engaging and immersive, and the likelyhood of that (or anything else suggested here) actually being âmadeâ or put into the game is a whole other question.
I think there are a lot of Skaven type enemies already (though I am always happy to add more to mow down).
Werewolfs would be cool but there are already the Wolfrats.
I wouldnât mind seeing more variety in the Beastmen type. I think in one of the fantasy novels I was reading there was a Beastmen mage type enemy that used a staff but I donât really remember the specifics.
I never played Left 4 Dead 2 early enough to experience the original balance, but Iâve played it enough to enjoy what is there currently.
I think whenever you add content updates to a game like new items, weapons, enemies types, classes, etc, you are always going to skew the balance a little bit.
Usually extensive testing goes into new content to see how it plays and the devs adjust things from there before releasing.
Developers wonât just abandon their games for a fear of messing with the balance a little bit. Theyâre going to keep adding content and polishing their game for as long as they would like to.
Both of us are speaking without knowing the nitty gritty of the gameâs code. Lets not take the high road and pretend we know exactly how it could be done.
Quadrupedal enemies couldnât be made to work (at least initially), flying enemies would need to have their own pathing system added up.
I mean, of all the addition that could happen, I wouldnât bet on flyers.
It is possible in select places and the pathing is coded like that, but most wall arenât climable
Quadruped, FS wanted to do them but couldnât make them work, but theyâre not werewolf like.
Bray Shaman, access to the lore of the Wild, Beast, Shadow or Death
Well now youâre just using what I said and then removing my context
Specifically this part
Anyway, the painting on terrain solution was just an idea that I had. Like I just said ^, the devs know more about the tools theyâd use then we do.
I genuinely think theyâd probably add these at some point, even if itâs not even on the table for now. Theyâre different enough theyâd peak interest from players who have not yet picked up the game, and theyâre also different enough to add something completely fresh for current players, and theyâre different enough to peak interest for possible returning players.
From what I can tell, and hesitated to bring up in my last reply to stop it getting too long, the developers have specifically placed areas on the map where enemies can climb over terrain (so I imagine it is somewhat scripted). I mostly bought this up because there is clearly a solution to make enemies scale walls in some way that exists already. So yes it would not be exactly the same, but from what I understand, actual pathfinding can work wherever you want it to work, it is not limited to floors.