Many weapons in the game only play on one character, what’s wrong with other weapons being better on other characters? Another thing is when the weapons are bad on all characters. Flamestorm and fireball staff both have the same LM attacks and are bad at everything. The disadvantages of the beam staff have been discussed many times, I don’t think they need to be reminded. The sparks on the lightning staff are almost never used. LM on the flamethrower is used, but not to say that from a good life, perhaps this is the only one other than the coruscation staff that does not require significant improvements.
as i said i dont have issues with handling specials on cata and i am almost everytime the one who shot the most specials on cata. So yeah, in my opinion there should be a increased overheat cost if you want to have more damage otherwise LB would be just straight out outperfermored. And if you are looking at weaves there the handmaidens also play with moonfirebow handling the specials. Also you can spam your bow in between for some nice hunter buff, which again compliments shade and handmaiden in her melee role.
which ones? I can’t think of a good example myself. It’s true that some weapons excel on some careers but most remain useable/viable.
While I’d find it rather difficult to but the MB in this category, it’s “bad” in comparison to the options given to each of the 4 careers.
Sorry but that’s just wrong. Fireball actually does good damage to almost everything. The only downside to it is that’s only utility is “doing damage” and while it’s good at that, I personally don’t pick it because of said lack of utility. The flamestorm staff has the exact issues the other flamethrower has too: It’s and anti-horde weapon while using up the ranged slot so you give up more than you gain and more importantly, it steals the THP off of your entire team. It’s actively detrimental to equip but it’s good at killing slaves.
The do not have the same left-click attack tf?
Since when does sienna have a lightning staff? Do you mean the Bolt staff? In that case: the “sparks” are actually really useful for keeping the heat up and they kill weak enemies quickly.
Besids the fact that flamethrowers “shouldn’t” be used, this only does 9ish damage to armor so it’s even bad at the only upside it has, it really isn’t/shouldn’t be used.
I disagree. All staffs are at least decent at what they do and I’d call none of them bad (except the flamestorm but that’s a design issue, not a balance one).
All this to say that this is a Moonbow thread and all this is off topic 
As much as this is an opinion and “fair enough”, the LB would’t be ouptperformed for the simple reason that, if they had the same damage, you’re choosing “easines of use/ forgivingnes” or “higher damage and sustained damage ceiling” and while you could say that “how often do I need the 6th+ arrow?” I found myself wanting those arrows plenty of times + the MB cannot even kill a CW with 5 headshots on legend… that is just abysmal. There is currently no reason to pick the MB over the javlin or LB.
That is inherently unreliable and only applies to the class of armor you hit. I found barrage to be more useful
if you increase the damage further you dont have to choose anymore between “easiness of use” or “higher damage”. Then it will be easy to use and higher damage.
As shade you want to kill chaos warrior in melee anyway because of the huge junk of THP on kill. On handmaiden you melee armoured enemies and chaos warrior as well because of the lack of ammunition regain on LB. Another advantage MB has is that you can switch between melee and range weapon faster due to the missing zoom animation/faster charge.
Its a nice to have addition tho, in addition to faster charge, still decent special/SV breakpoints and infinite ammo.
Look, my two cents:
I liked it before the nerf, but I understand it was a lil too strong. It’s still a decent weapon but was definitely nerfed a little too hard. I don’t really have any ideas of how to improve it but I think that it needs something, not much but something.
Also just whilst we are talking about weapons needing a lil buff I’d like to pull the throwing axes up to be at least more comparable to the javelins, I know the javelins are a controversial weapon for being too strong but throwing axes imo need a faster recall because currently it feels like its just a little too slow.
I will not discuss the staffs, although I was impressed that someone thinks that they are normal. Weapons on only one class, the same flamethrower on Ironbreaker or one-handed ax on Zealot. And if you follow your posts in this thread, then your opinion that moonfire is too weak is based on the erroneous opinion that its capabilities are not enough for a cataclysm.
You can run a decent Repel, Briar’s Malice and wall ult build with Hunter on SoTT. I was playing it on Tzeentch Vanguard and kiting forever, while picking off Elites/Specials (once you proc Hunter with the Moonbow, you can kill a lot of stuff in one hit).
On Shade and HM it’s more than fine.
Shade, reaching the breakpoint is kind of annoying, but if you’re headshot build it shouldn’t matter.
On HM it’s the best option, due to 40% Crit and Hunter, and unlimited ammo.
Waystalker is the only one where anything else is better, but even then it’s completely fine due to Bloodshot + Ult interaction, it’s just a chill lazy bow for WS.
Oh, I already talked about this:
Well to be fair, it is one of two comfortable picks if one wants to run a Piercing build, my currently preferred shtick. Javs might be better strictly speaking but good usage of the ability of the itself does make up for it.
Yeah, playing Moonbow WS is a weird urge I keep getting.
I mostly only play Jav on Shade for the OP headshot stacks now though, it’s too reliant on linear Hordes for my tastes, but insane when you get them.
ACTUALLY the only change I would ask for on Moonbow is Heat Sink on it, for SoTT.
It’s not great. You can’t hit the breakpoints you need to with it as it’s not a traditional sniper, you’re really banking on your DoTs to do work, paired with serrated arrows it still doesn’t hit its breakpoints on cata. To top it off her passive doesn’t give you more ammo for it so you’re essentially throwing away one of her more useful skills. You’re quite reliant on your melee with a moonfire build as you constantly have to switch off of it to wait for it to cool down. WS doesn’t get many traits to boost her melee so you’re kind of screwed on that front if you ever run into a patrol. Not saying don’t do it, just saying you’re going to run into more problems than not.
As we all said on waystalker moonbow is bad. We are arguing about shade, handmaiden and sister.
Btw you oneshot headshot all specials with moonbow with the right properties.
I have the guess that all waystalker mains are crying that moonbow is underpowered, and that those players doesnt get that the moonfirebow is not made for waystalker anymore. It is not inteded to be used on waystalker, but that doesnt mean that it is a bad weapon because on the other careers it can shine.
Ok so I’d say that WS is probably the 2nd best at using the moonbow (although it’s neither great nor does it take advantage off a lot of WS abilities) it does get the blooded shot which is really useful in boosting the MBs damage.
Just to have this clarified: On which classes, which properties and does it compare to the LB breakpoints in that it’s able to hit ALL OF THEM with a single build on all classes?
There’s also the matter of “it oneshots them… on the 6th tick of fire damage” because while it is useful that an enemy is guaranted to die with a single hit, that kill happening 10 seconds later is enough for this “dead” special to get one member of the team killed. So I personally don’t view that as such a massive upside. If it takes longer than 2 ticks for them to die, I shoot them a 2nd time.
I disagree. Why is it not supposed to be useable on a class that you can equip it on? If it was really the intention to not be used anymore on a class, why not remove it from said classes arsenal?
yeah it takes bit longer but you can do charged shot + quickshot then all should die fast. That is how i play it
because waystalker has much better alternatives. For the other 3 classes it is a viable choice.
Sorry but i dont see any need to buff it. Maybe some sidegrading tweaks are nice but not a straight buff.
You can hit 6 headshot breakpoints (+Bodyshot Gutter Runners) with 3-4 stats and EP. Which it doesn’t really need on WS becase:
Serrated Shots doesn’t work with Moonbow, so you run Bloodshot or:
Drakira’s Alacrity is a Melee Talent. When paired with Hunter it’s pretty decent, but this isn’t necessary.
I happily run Dual Daggers (Parry) and make good use of Bloodshots for any kills without an issue maintaining ammo.
The bow is super easy to use, when compared to any of the other Kerillian Weapons, as even Javalin relies on heavily linearised Hordes before it becomes OP.
So, it’s benefits for WS are:
- 7 breakpoints possible
- Easy Boss damage, which allows you to fight other things
- Unlimited ammo
- Can run Bloodshot + Loaded Bow for maximum braindead gameplay
In fact, I’d say this bow is one of the most balanced Ranged Weapons to use on Waystalker. Especially after they lowered the Bloodshot + Loaded Bow by one arrow.
Even when Moonbow was OP, it wasn’t as good as any of other bows on WS though. The only thing they could change to for that to be the case is to make Serrated Shots work with it, which would make it absolutely broken.
If you want something similar to a bodyshot DoT build, the best I can recommend is the 2-tap Longbow build: https://www.ranalds.gift/build/SLL1KocbTPpnkwMOLwU7/view
i hard disagree on that one, in fact jav and moonfirebow enable you to take piercing shot or loaded bow. Both are very strong talents. Loaded bow is more a braindead gameplay and piercing shot has a very high potential if played properly. The ammo regain talent is in fact a talent you are more forced to take and hinders you to take better talents. Thats why many players take jav or even moonbow on waystalker.
especially hagbane was better than the previous OP Moonbow. Hagbane has the highest monster damage and insane damage vs horde. Why people still took OP moonbow? Easy to answer because of the prenerfed loaded bow + bloodshot.
And after the bloodshot nerf on trueflight volley loaded bow is an even more powerful talent. It makes a big difference of having 3/4 arrows (without bloodshot/ with bloodshot) or if you have 4/5 arrows.
Which again is an argument for jav or moonbow on waystalker ( i still perfer jav on her XD)
Yeah, I like Jav, but the need for linear Hordes is boring. It is completely OP when you have them though.
I mean, for anyone with good aim then longbow is just superior in terms of damage output and time spent. For anyone looking for greater versatility then javs are also just better at practically everything except the manual reloads aspect.
So for moonbow to be the best option one needs to dislike reloading with a passion, dislike aiming properly most of the time and also not need ranged much either.
What was that about better alternatives really? Moonbow is never the “best in slot” on anyone post nerf, the one area i´d call it good was as you noted above, the fact that it lets waystalkers get away with using Piercing shot much more easily which can be very potent. But even then…yea you noted the javs.
on shade and handmaiden it is IMO better than LB but thats only my opinion and i would say i have a pretty good aim. But it feels faster in switching between melee and range. Also i shoot a lot while i close up to melee the horde to trigger hunter. Maybe it is not better than LB but only another playstyle.
On Sister i personally see moonbow only viable with Hunter and Briars Malice. Without this build other weapons are better on her.