Playing as HM in Legend and Cata with the bow I can say that it’s the best ranged for her right now. More energy/ammo would make it too powerful, and that wouldn’t be fair to the people that doesn’t own the DLC.
Kind of the wrong approach. Taking something that is too strong and wanting to balance it to the only thing thats even stronger.
Putting the hammer to both is the sensible way.
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Judging by how powerful it is, and how limited the ammunition can be, it may be a suitable adjustment to lengthen the time between DoT ticks, but keep the damage and number of DoT ticks as the same. This should make the wielder more cautious about how they play with it, since specials and berzerkers have more time to get all-up-in-yo-face before they inevitably die. After all, the tick rate does seem very fast in its current state.
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I’d almost just say scrap some of the DoT damage. Its DoT damage is incredibly powerful on top of having some high base damage. I never have to try going for headshots with that weapon at all. There is no ammo requirement. No penalty for really missing not going for headshots. Reduce the damage and say if you headshot a stormvermin its an instant kill on headshot after factoring in the DoT on Legend.
I mean that’s all a trade off
a trade off which is reasonable
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Ok but how would you rate it on WS specifically? I’d say due to her uptime on the other bows Moonfire is probably dead last currently. She gains almost nothing from Moonfire that her melee careers don’t also benefit from, so as it is why would you ever run it on WS over either of her melee careers? I don’t think you would run it on WS if you were playing remotely seriously.
Maybe I’m way off base there, but if my impression is correct, then logically WS could afford to be slightly better with it without upsetting any balance.
bloodshot will give you every breakpoint you’d ever need to hit and you can run piercing shot without ever worrying about sustain
you’ll be worse off compared to longbow if we’re talking sniping multiple specials or elites and you’ve got a good headshot ratio but that’s risk vs reward innit
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Eh, fair enough I guess, though I’d be surprised if HM and Shade couldn’t hit pretty much every relevant breakpoint with it pretty easily. As it stands I don’t think there’s a single bow I’d take it over on WS, and if I specifically wanted to use moon fire WS would probably be the last class I’d want to use it on.
Again it’s a really really good bow, just bums me out a bit WS gets borderline anti synergy with it. I admit it’s probably pointless trying to make it relevant for WS while hag is still how it is but struggling to see what the harm would be in WS being able to fire it a touch more regularly than her melee counterparts.
I was thinking about 10-20% more energy(1 charged shot) for WS, hopefully not overpowered but also based on her currently useless-for-moonbow ammo boosting passive. More energy allows one or two more shots but also needs a slightly longer reload time to balance it out.
I do actually agree but Fatshark would have nerfed hagbane by now if they wanted to.
Doesnt it do like 30 base on a stage 1 charged shot? That´s not terribly high for something you can only do 5-6 times in a row…but the DOT is and it ticks really fast.
I dont really know about that, why must a weaker build be kept a fair bit weaker just because? Even if the bow was granted say enough energy for 1 more charged shot then it´d still be worse than hagbane or a good longbow but just not as much.
Piercing arrow doesnt oneshot chaos warriors at any rate, not without giving up assassin.
But if we say that hagbane is a bad target for comparision and look at longbow instead then it still feels short up. The only time moonbow seems better is when you cant headshot a boss consistently and when enemies are hyperdense and will eat the charged shot as much as possible.
…Well and against stormfiends at any rate because if you shoot the minirat you get aggro but the armored head takes very little damage from physical hits.
So in the end i really do feel that even if at a greatly reduced rate the ammo boost passive should come into play.
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Outdated idea in my opinion.
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A questionable way to argue. Next up: “Sienna cliping into maps is there since 1.0. Must be intnended behavior!”, or “Cloak of Mist is there forever. You cant nerf it!”
You could also say it isnt ever worth argueing about weapon balance, since Incan isnt doing another BBB, so we wont get on in our lifespan again.
Or we dont use arguements like “Its like that forever, so it must be balanced and rightous.”
To be fair I don’t remember anyone in this thread actually arguing it should be brought up to hagbane levels. If anything most people seem receptive to Moonfire being nerfed. Frosty and I have only argued that it could afford to have a little better synergy specifically for WS, and have made pretty tame suggestions that most definitely would not make it nearly as good as hagbane on WS.
The original quotation from Frosty you replied to said “more competitive”. I’m fairly sure Frosty clarified a number of times previously that he didn’t want it brought up to hagsbane level, just tweaked upwards a little specifically in how it interacts with WS’s passive, who doesn’t really have much use for the thing at all at the moment.
I’m just not quite sure what you’re actually arguing over here, theorycrafting on FS’s potential balance changes aside.
Hagbane has been like this for ages even before the BBB, in my mind since Fatshark wont do it and no one else will then there is no point in holding out on hope for anything to happen on that front.
Doing so would just be holding on to idealism all while a different reality is staring down on you.
,…
But since you might have missed it i´ll clarify that, over the course of the thread i have mainly asked for a minor buff to synergy with WS plus minor nerfs to damage against certain targets. Raiders, gattlings and firerats specifically.
That because right now all of these can be killed in one stage 1 charged shot which i think is too little and doesnt make sense in some cases really. But in turn for nerfing though i hope for an AOE that matches the visual a bit better and (its smaller right now) and the above synergy thing.
Moonfire shouldn’t be compared with Hagbane by sheer effectiveness of the weapons alone, because it’s core comparative advantage comes from the fact that it works way better with Piercing Shot than others. I see OP also acknowledges this benefit and wants this to be extended by a bit, and although I understand his point, it doesn’t seem to be clearly weak to the point where we need immidiate buff. That’s how much potential Piercing Shot has, and infinite ammo from Moonfire that supports PS perfectly well.
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That would actually be an interesting mechanic…
However, I can only imagine something like that being balanced if it were built into a level 30 talent or something… as for Fatshark’s priorities, I couldn’t see such a significant change that the weapon isn’t in dire need of taking place. WS can still do good work with the bow, and it also gives people a reason to run Piercing shot, seeing as Kurnous’ reward doesn’t work on it.
You may be right I’m underestimating the impact of having piercing shot for free. I guess time will tell how moonfire bow WS settles into the meta. Even if it ends up being a little undertuned I certainly wouldn’t try to argue it’s one of the more pressing balance concerns.
I’m more worried about this weapon being nerfed. At Cata it 1-shots Maulers and every special except wargors, it has one of the strongest DoTs and basically infinite ammo.
I was legit worried about this bow being a glorified hagbane on release, but right now I wouldn’t buff any of it.
I just want FS to reduce Friendly Fire damage on it. Its waaay too crazy. Especially in Chaos Wastes, so many times I have been shotted ONCE and half of my hp was gone.
Elf players with the hagbane have already been quite a pain, so let’s make the poor ones (i.e. most) stick even more.