Now there seems to be some adjustment in player-skill in Legend, I think one thing that might make things a little easier, without having to adjust massive amounts would be the resilience when a player is downed.
When a player gets downed, the window of opportunity for someone else to clear the area or dash in to help is very very small. Often players go from down>dead in a matter of seconds with little opportunity for others to even help recognise where the player is down let alone make a foray to help them.
I know we’re supposed to lumber around within two inches of each other, but this isn’t ever going to happen.
I think increasing the survivability of players once they’re down might make rescuing them a possibility rather than just dismiss people and move on.
I agree this would help, and also makes games more exciting than frustrating. increasing the window of rescue means more last moment saves and epic comebacks.
One thing that may really help with that is to add a window of invulnerability when going down and when getting back up. too many times i’ve seen myself or another player get ressed only to instantly die to the attack that was already mid swing. Even holding block does nothing, just killed the moment you get up with no chance to react. At the same time ive been hit from behind by a group of rats, instantly downed from 100 and then dead one second later from the flurry of attacks. One single mistake and the team is down a man without the chance to pull it back or recover. these moments only create frustration when they could be big moments of close calls or teaching moments of “we were too slow” instead of “That was lame! What happened?!?”
Tbh i am finding legend QPs to be more in line with pre 2.0 winrates, in fact I am assuming more wins than losses on average. At least IMO, not a whole lot more tweaking is required, at least if not to make legend an easy steamroll.
I think making enemies ignore downed players as long as there are other targets they can get to would help, be reasonable and stop bosses from doing very strange (and unfun) things in the middle of combat.
I’ve actually spammed a hagbane into a boss to take agro and get it off someone. Kite the boss in a circle and all of a sudden, he just loses interest and goes back to kill the downed player there’s nothing we can do but laugh at how brutal it is. Live targets hitting him, nah, screw this guy in particular, overhead heavy to finish him off.
I think giving players even another 20% damage reduction while being on the ground would work. That way, if they’re running Bark Skin, they’re getting at least 60% damage reduction.
BTW, to all you Merc and UC mains, your heals also work on downed players. That little bit of extra HP might save their lives. I think even heal share tops up downed players
It makes sense that players die fast when they’re surrounded by a horde, I think. Beastmen really seem to do a ton more damage than other factions (in general, but also to downed players). It all kinda reminds me more of VT1, where it seems like players died quicker when they were down, or at least were harder to successfully rez.
I mentioned this awhile ago. Actually it must have been three weeks? Getting to a downed player unless you’re already making the assumption that they’re going to get downed, is extremely hard for the unprepared. There are tools that you can build around that helps but does not eliminate problems. This is exasperated by how AI for specials work.
I won’t make more comparisons to L4D, but I will say that having somebody go down and then get globadiered is becoming extremely annoying. And that short delay between getting revived and being able to block has undboutedly killed many many many players.
If they won’t make players more tanky they should at least get rid of that delay.
Just double the downed player health on champion and above and limit the aggro to 5 or 6 enemies, so an entire horde isn’t wailing on the downed player. As for monsters, just force them to ignore downed players after a few seconds of them being downed. This would help prevent alot more wipes.
Trying to finish my 100 clears on BW, I’ve noticed a BW with Conflag is very good for team support all around. I threw 60% BCR and stamina recovery on her. The conflag staggers pretty much everything, throw a instant cast on your downed team mate to knock everything off them. Then go in and revive, ULT while reviving to stagger everything again. She’s probably the best class for team rescue.
You can even charge up the conflag just before you start reviving, and let off a blast just as you finish to give him some room to get back and heal when he stands up.
Played some L4D2 last night and even on Expert level you get quite a long time with things wailing on you before you’re killed. Of course you get the pistols to defend yourself while you’re down but the principal that the other players need some time to get close and help you remains.
Definitely killed me dozens of times ;/ Recovering just in time to take a halberd to the face with no way of protecting yourself is some Bona Fide BullSh*t.
Globadiers poisoning a downed player is guaranteed death too, although that feels quite realistic. A boss pounding the snot out of a downed player while a Slayer is going postal on it doesn’t.
You know it’s next to impossible to see people revive while using their career skill these days and I could swear that was a lot more commonplace, and if not I guess I’m just more sensitive for it not happening if somebodies rescue attempt gets stuffed.
However you’re absolutely right, she’s (next to maybe an IB with a shield) hands down one of the best careers to stage a rescue no matter where the person they’re rescuing may be. it’s pretty good when in good hands
I used to run this same setup as well during 1.6. 100% BCR, Heal Share and 2x Fire Walk ensures that my party has all the CC support and DoT they need if things go south + healing when someone is gray. You can literally hold a checkpoint on your own when a horde appears (while your party deals with a boss, for example). Just avoid getting pushed back by enemies. Goes through right your block, and you can instantly die when it happens haha.
I agree with the OP. Moreover we could change “respawn speed” property with “damage reduction when downed”.
Well, just to continue a little the off topic, saying that 2.0 is easy as 1.6, it’s wrong. Now I don’t want to start another discussion about tHP/stagger/Beastmen/dodge… but that there are some innatural spikes of difficoulty is quite objective.
If we run maps on the same difficoulty and with the same loot… the grade of difficoulty should be, more or less, the same. Convocation, Fort and Dark Omens are a new difficoulty between Legend and Cataclysm. Dark Omens in particular… I haven’t never seen none pick a grim. Do Grims exist on that map?
A heartfelt thankyou for contributing such wonderful insight as “gitgud”. Revolutionary,thoughtful and inspired comments.
Whilst I can complete QP Legend runs fairly consistently now, getting downed>dead so fast is something I think has been compounded by the higher Health Pool and higher damage delivered by the enemies. Maybe playing LFD2 and seeing just how long you last and how much opportunity other players have to get you upright has shone a light on it in VT2.
@souI23 I like the idea of having at a property, but I’d rather damage reduction was just altered while downed.
BW is a rescue machine. Just tp in hold resque and tp out. Same goes for zealot and maiden without 1st part of course. Also ult 1st then revive works fine for WHC. Mechanics are there it is up to players to use it or not.
there’s nothing we can do but laugh at how brutal it is. Live targets hitting him, nah, screw this guy in particular, overhead heavy to finish him off. 