it should be like 76% DR or thereabouts I think
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that’s the problem… nobody can calculate it.
We all understand how it works. Multiplicative means more you add, less bonus you receive at the end.
But the game does not give this info, and I think that nobody here knows to calculate it correctly. And I asked Chatgpt and it was “festival” of hallucinations.
I mean way I did it was:
total damage reduction = 1-(1-0.5)(1-0.15)(1-0.25)(1-0.25)=0.7609375
so total damage reduction= ~76%
like I said I ain’t a math wizz but also you can do some quick googling if you need to, don’t need to use chatGPT (and I wouldn’t use LLMs for this sort of stuff either, idk why we’re replacing using a search engine or otherwise doing actual research with asking a glorified chat bot)
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But it doesnt matter. You arent thinking ’ i have 76% dr i can tank this and not this’ youre thinking ‘I need more or less surv’ and play accordingly or the game is truely a festival of lwow skill numbers. Do not start that lobbying kark. Even with a calclator stat sheet i ngame it wouldnt make a difference, the game isnt designed like an MMO, you’d pla ythe exact same. I do not need to know what my plethora of finesse bonuses do, I just know if it aint dead I keep shooting, shovellin’ or assess.
I can assure you nothing in game is giving 76% DR flat, no disrespect to the math despite not agreeeing with an efficiency standpoint. This is the exact reason games dont include the info, you dont need to know and you dont need to play a numbers metagame for the sake of it.
This is why they gave us a lab, ok its only damnation (i dont use addons) but you can test damage relative to different build given the points limitation. Sure Id like a range where they can shoot/stab/eat us to test dmg/tough regen etc but I can do that i ngame too. In Havocs. Because thats how I roll, I test all builds and variations that I enjoy. I dont need to see a stat sheet tellnig me x does y because I know it doesnt translate like that into the game, everyone plays different.
I just had a game where a Boltgun DudeTM was unloading on chaff and when Crushers and Bulwarks came he was frantically trying to survive with a Thudner Hammer. On paper a Boltgun should only be used on high priority targets like Ogryns but thats absolutely not how it pans out every game.
Ok for me…
Thanks, at least I have an answer.
And yes, did researches on the net.
hmm…
Ok… if you don’t care, look at these nice bonuses and be happy.
A bonus of 100% that would add +1 damage in Darktide can look good… but it would be bad. If you cannot understand what you read, then I don’t see how you can talk about something.
As you don’t know anything and don’t even want to know, I will just disregard your opinion because it is backed… by nothing.
And I believe that Incandescent has the right formule and that, in my example you get 76% TDR…
Without stalwart, this is 68%. The +25% TDR bonus, translate in just a +8% as it is multiplicative (but just when you have ALL what I have written).
This shows the limit of these bonuses.
Great for breakpoints. Bad for testing talents because you’re never in same situation like in game.
I can get insane stats in training room, that I will never reproduce in the missions.
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You don’t rly need to minmax a lot cause it’s not a purely gear check game but skill depended.
That’s kinda why numbers can be helpful, but you can play the game without knowing how things are calculated. You jump in the run trying out talents combo and it’s either “yeap feels good” or “damn it’s kind sucks”.
I agree… but look my example. This is something I really used in maelstrom with the DS (so I actually don’t use it) to get the penance (5 missions without being down).
I have always wanted to know how much TDR I was achieving. The build is great… and because a lot of these bonus trigger on different things, I think I get 40 to 68 % TDR normally
Without the formule, I had an idea. How much exactly, I had no idea.
Understanding such things can help you to make choices. That’s all I say.
And tbh, Marksman bonuses… well I see really better things, in veteran talent tree, than these bonuses.
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Yeah, fair enough, tho in FS defense (sometimes i do this, yeap), it’s rare when even gear/stats heavy games show you estimated calculations.
Yeal well, it’s overall bloated, and left branch is problematic cause providing 0 defensive stats for the playstyle that suppose to sit in a small fov zoom.
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Sorry, I dont know why you feel the need to dissect every single part of all my replies as if you have something to prove than just comment normally.
I read your first quote and yes, I understand it completely, , i dont agree that it needs translated, for the exact reasons I said. You havnt again engaged with what Ive said youve jumped to conclusions and in your head thats what I muist have meant, every time I have to tell you to stop putting words in my mouth. Would you please not do that. There is nothing like that example in DT, and if there was I’d be the first rammnig it down the Devs necks saying fix it. Just stop it you utter troll there is no way you can think making up an absurd example is something Im not aware of and also presume I wouldnt care if it was actually reality, which it isnt by your account and mine.
What do you want, to be unkillable or have the numbers translated for you? It wil ltranslate into the game as individuallly leveraged gameplay the exact same way irrespective of what the numbers say. As if the game isnt basic enough. A lot of people already know and those that dont will either not care and just read (something you have issues with) or take a talent based on what it says trusting a talent that says ‘25% toughness damage reduction’ gives tdr in some amount, preferably what it says and not actually ranged finesse power. Im not saying the difference between adding a talent and not stating if its multiplicative with the base amount/stat or additive with it isnt confusing, it is, but some literally have a plus symbol or say it in the tooltip. Just stop presuming and making up things to suit how you feel, you act like people have no idea of something unless they state it and you dont thinkmtwice to quote people and shove words down their throat.
I was more than happy to discuss with you, but anything you dont agree with leads to you not thinknig twice about distorting truth, acting disengenuously and straight up lying to make yourself feel better.
There no way to veryify his calcs because afaik we dont have the source code, you dummy. What are you verifying t again, your own homegrown calc? Makes sernse. You live in a make believe world and he even admitted hes not sure, aka plucked the numbers out of what he THOUGHT MIGHT be right and still act completely deluded. Carry on thinknig you’re getting 3 quarters of damage flat reduced then tughness regenning with whatever talents affect it on a Zealot. I can also admit that since we dont have the source code, I cant guarantee nothing is getting a fat 76% dr, but if it is, guess what, I’d complain about that because whoever class ahs that its too high, 66% should be the max on top of toughness regen and tdr before that. Or did you mean 76% tdr and not dr which to me applies to health? You see, I am capable of asking clarifying questions. Somrthing you are not.
I asked why you needed to know the specific integers, a very simple, short, direct question and you’ve totally ignored it. Again. But you’ve given weeping_moon the answer. I honestly think youre just trollnig at this point.
If they help you make choices, how much info do you need to make a choice of dodging out of a laser burst you cant tank because it’ll do health dmg or not.
Stats inthe training room… if you cant reproduce them there is an absolutely not surprising inconsistency between the screen and the chair.
Holy hell
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So what if Marksman’s Focus was TOTALLY redesigned?
What if you start at ten stacks, and each stack gives you a shot that gets bonus rending, and when you aim down sights you get a large DR, immunity to interruption, and - only at max stacks - a knockback effect that will push smaller mobs (not bosses/ogryns) away?
You lose a stack each shot, but gain one back on a headshot kill.
Maybe I’m totally off-base here, but it seems to me that this would enable you to be a Marksman more easily; give you the ability to stop and take careful shots. But since you lose stacks on shooting, it works best with slow-firing, precision weapons.
Any of my details could be changed, may be too good or too bad. The point is just to reconceptualize it as something that is actually potentially useful, interesting, and helps with a marksman playstyle.
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Knockback is bad, because if mob knocked you can’t aim its head. It happens with infantry lasguns sometimes that stagger plays against you.
Damage reduction on ADS is a must. It was a Bardin Ranger talent in V2.
Atleast from the back and sides. Also they can make it work only with guns that have ADS mode.
Because you are spending time on amimations for going in and out ads, and have a smaller fov.
The problem with Marksman is that they are punishing you for shooting while moving, while it should be reversed, cause it’s harder to aim on the move.
Another thing is ET triggers on weakspot kill is questionable. Because someone can lasthit your mob or knockback it, and you will end up not having your toughness.
Just compare to this.
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I see what you mean - the thought was to give the player some breathing room so they could aim at further-away targets.
Because here I’m only testing the actual damage bonus that the Marksman Focus cornerstone can provide, I need to remove other related variables
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The formula for multiplicative DR on its own is very easy. @Incandescent gave it to you correctly here:
What makes it difficult with Darktide is not ALL instances of DR are multiplicative. For instance, small toughness DR nodes stack additively with each other THEN get multiplied by other DR instances.
Knowing which ones add together before multiplying by others is what makes the calculation difficult.
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A common situation in actual combat is that you cannot stagger with a laser gun or repel close combat enemies approaching you, but you can stagger the enemy’s gunner, causing you to fail to hit consecutively
The fact is that the left-line talent of the veteran seems to have a large amount of long-range weapon damage bonus, such as 30% weakness boost and 75%finesse bonus boost. However, due to its strange calculation method, the actual gain is very low, and the difficulty of triggering these bonuses is particularly high, which is particularly unsuitable for the main combat environment of the current dark tide
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Classic Fatshark tooltipping/clarity issue :)))))
The source code has been available for ages but I’m not gonna go digging into it just to settle a forum debate (or whatever this is supposed to be) I’m just pulling from memory.
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I mean yes finesse bonuses scale with the base weakspot/crit multipliers of the attack. That doesn’t mean they aren’t still substantial. A 30% weakspot bonus is around 20% more actual damage for dueling sword heavies, which is a pretty extreme case but there are some very high finesse scaling ranged weapons as well. Like laspistol goes hard with left tree.
I do agree though that moving some finesse bonuses to smaller amounts of base damage increase would open left tree up to more ranged weapon options, especially for MF which is currently extremely weapon dependent.
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yeah when the game was pre 13 you could just get a bunch of range damage through executioner stance and generally use whatever you wanted easier. now veteran is sort of pigeon holed into weakspot damage with ranged instead and its kind of garb for weapons that don’t go higher than 2.0 or even close. I would like there to be a better balance of power throughout the nodes so you aren’t spending all of them just to patch up one element of your kit. that’s where veteran feels really weak atm. especially comparing a range/melee hybrid kit to just doing it with zealot and using their faster no stamina sprint to harvest ammo. or psyker.
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