Maelstroms should have their own terminal

[MaxxJ]

(tl;dr make maelstroms more of a deliberate choice to improve player experience)

Maelstroms in general are their own difficulty. I think they should get a mission assignment area sort of like the other two game modes.

Doing this would accomplish a few things.

• Open the possibility to having multiple maelstrom modifier sets active at the same time.
• Create an a soft barrier to this difficulty, to prevent people from joining it by mistake. If you’re going out of your way to join one of these, you know what you’re getting into and are probably actually ready for that challenge.
• Decrease the amount of ragequitting due to two reasons; (1) realizing they’re not ready for that challenge and backing out (2) realizing the team is doomed because one or more of them wasn’t ready and giving up on them.
• Increase the possibility of more content, like making these missions into a “we’re going back here again to deal with this situation that popped up” with more voice lines and possibilities for expanding lore.

In order to gain access to the heresy and auric maelstrom mission terminals, a person should have successfully unlocked the next difficulty on the standard board. Meaning, unlock damnation difficulty in the standard mission terminal to gain access to the heresy maelstrom missions, and put a mission completed counter on auric just like on lower difficulties so that when a person completes 5 auric missions on standard, they get access to auric maelstrom.

[dunnothisguy]

No to a yet another terminal, that’s the worst way to do it. Why exactly what you suggest can’t be done with just another difficulty level on top of Auric?

[Index]

@MaxxJ

• (1) realizing they’re not ready for that challenge and backing out (2) realizing the team is doomed because one or more of them wasn’t ready and giving up on them.

well point 1 won’t happen sadly.
you got peeps that literally get lost on the fking map… how clueless and learning resistant can someone be to not know the pure minimum come auric, let alone pick maelstrom.

nah, they see more “rewards”, which is idiotic in itself for how can you not have full gear by the time you leave damnation, and hope for a free pass through carry.

which leads to point 2, basically the only difficulty left to auric maelstroms given current power levels, the more and worse they f-up, the funnier the match progresses.

auric maelstrom became pretty stale, solos/duos being a “normal sight” , so “those” stirring up the pot and make for a more chaotic situation is in fact a hidden modifier

besides, the amount of havoc40s leaving maelstroms after dying ridiculously is

in short, just alter the mission table to have one more click to the right past auric and have it the pure auric maelstrom pool with every modifier on every map choseable.

if i want 20 I II V E G that day i should have the option to do so.

[Djaresh]

@MaxxJ

• Open the possibility to having multiple maelstrom modifier sets active at the same time.

That would make it less likely to get a full team on the missions that have “bad” modifiers or at times with low player count. There is a reason why the mission board is as it is.

@MaxxJ

• Create an a soft barrier to this difficulty, to prevent people from joining it by mistake.

Is this actually a common problem? I doubt this happens to too many people even once. This could also be resolved way easier by giving the Maelstrom mission icon a different colour to stand out more on the current mission board.

@MaxxJ

• Decrease the amount of ragequitting due to two reasons; (1) realizing they’re not ready for that challenge and backing out (2) realizing the team is doomed because one or more of them wasn’t ready and giving up on them.

People rage-quit even Havoc and that one has it’s own terminal. This will always be a thing because people either never tried a certain modifier, trying a new build that isn’t working or they just have a bad day. I don’t see how a new terminal will help with that in any way.

@MaxxJ

• Increase the possibility of more content, like making these missions into a “we’re going back here again to deal with this situation that popped up” with more voice lines and possibilities for expanding lore.

I don’t understand how this is linked to the idea of it’s own terminal. They could easily do that without a new terminal and would make more sense for Havoc, as you are sent in under the command of Commissar Dukane. While the idea of that isn’t necessary bad, it would need resources they could rather invest into entirely new mission which we haven’t seen in a long time.

@MaxxJ

In order to gain access to the heresy and auric maelstrom mission terminals, a person should have successfully unlocked the next difficulty on the standard board. Meaning, unlock damnation difficulty in the standard mission terminal to gain access to the heresy maelstrom missions, and put a mission completed counter on auric just like on lower difficulties so that when a person completes 5 auric missions on standard, they get access to auric maelstrom.

This may not be a bad idea, but can also easily implemented into the current mission board. What would actually help is a notification upon unlocking or first attempting to start a Maelstrom mission that tells players what Maelstroms actually are and that the player should always look at the modifiers that the mission brings to pick equipment accordingly.

[Djaresh]

@Index

in short, just alter the mission table to have one more click to the right past auric and have it the pure auric maelstrom pool with every modifier on every map choseable.

if i want 20 I II V E G that day i should have the option to do so.

That would entirely kill matchmaking possibilities because everyone would make their own lobbies with their own modifiers. There is a reason behind the mission board working as it does and it’s the reason why you always instantly find players unless the mission ran out. This could kill the game once the playerbase isn’t as large and you don’t have people join your game anymore.

[MaxxJ]

@dunnothisguy

No to a yet another terminal, that’s the worst way to do it. Why exactly what you suggest can’t be done with just another difficulty level on top of Auric?

To keep people from just clicking all the way to the end and joining the run with the most rewards. If it is separate then that is less likely to happen. I don’t think it would bring down the auric player count any more than damnation being effected by auric’s existence. We already can’t QP into maelstrom games so that means people are intentionally picking something they’re not ready for.

@Djaresh

That would make it less likely to get a full team on the missions that have “bad” modifiers or at times with low player count. There is a reason why the mission board is as it is.

This could be seen as a possibility for improvement. FS would need to make some changes to satisfy the people who cry about gas modifiers, maybe add a couple light sources like burn barrels or something to the lights out mission. Then stick a QP option on this screen and people would join them.

@Djaresh

Is this actually a common problem? I doubt this happens to too many people even once. This could also be resolved way easier by giving the Maelstrom mission icon a different colour to stand out more on the current mission board.

Yep, joining with an incomplete build/loadout, get stomped in the first encounter because they haven’t learned how handle hordes, immediately complain and leave. I’ve seen a couple say they didn’t realize they hit maelstrom in the last few months. It wont eliminate the problem but I bet it would cut it down a lot, on top of making maelstroms better.

@Djaresh

I don’t understand how this is linked to the idea of it’s own terminal.

It’s related to the title suggestion in that if they dis this, or something like this, to address other problems, they would have more options to make it better. Right now it just feels like clicking into any other mission, but it’s not. It’s harder than a normal auric run. Maelstrom missions could even have slight changes to the map like with the twins map, or new voice lines. I don’t really see why they couldn’t make some changes now other than they might not think something fits ‘creatively’ but I’m also not behind the scenes, I just want to see something improve.

@Djaresh

That would entirely kill matchmaking possibilities because everyone would make their own lobbies with their own modifiers

I agree with you on this. I think it would be better to just have a couple preset modifiers on rotation that we can QP into or select manually, same as the standard terminal.

Not responding to anyone in particular with this next part,
Yes, I’ve been getting aggravated with people turning what I use to unwind after work into carry sessions assuming they don’t just quit and leave me stuck with bots after a 25 minute slog saving them repeatedly. I’ve played since launch and I’m at 3300 hours, a lot of that time is spent in auric maelstrom(the reason I bring this topic up.) I get on after work and play a game or three, and I play with my wife on the weekends. In the last couple months I’ve watched the average skill level of players in auric maelstrom tank, and this was happening even before the Skitarii release. When I drop down to damnation or auric+hi/dogs to play with her(she still struggles with hi+stg), I find a lot of people who are honestly good enough to form a competent team in auric maelstrom.

So this was my thought… probably as biased as anyone else’s thoughts about their preferred game mode/difficulty, but just throwing this idea out there, maybe it will get somebody at FS thinking about how to improve the situation and something may get better, instead of just being another whining post talking about gatekeeping a difficulty.

[Index]

or it would reduce the maelstrom pool to

I II
I II V E G
C I VI

for those that play the mode regularly, and show fatshark people wont touch dogs&gas with a tenpole given the chance.

@Djaresh

get a full team on the missions that have “bad” modifiers

scrap them altogether by collectively boycotting it
i log in, i see B or J, i say f-that, i play doom dark ages for half an hour.

how in the emperors name will fatshark force me to play a crappy modifier if i dont want to?

besides, you don’t “need” a full team by now to finish auric maelstrom thanks to the portable nukes that players became.
as of now i dont really pay attention if peeps leave midgame and sometimes register only 5 minutes after we had a bot instead or two all that time

if the result of free choice is people ditching certain modifiers that means they’ve been to begin with and shouldn’t exist in the first place

@MaxxJ

the average skill level of players in auric maelstrom tank

well, thank dlc talents of arbites and scum for that so they dont have only smite to faceroll to the shuttle.
people get used to the lazy options and devolve rather than improve.
worst of all is them totally fine with being the carried since at the end “we won”. after a certain time they’re used and numb to it, wont even self reflect on when shown a replay

[AccountMadeToReply]

@Djaresh

Is this actually a common problem?

if you play enough auric maelstroms you’ll eventually come across some very ammo hungry builds in the CIVI(mostly melee no ammo) maelstrom and once they run out of ammo theyll start pinging for it over and over until someone tells them there isnt any ammo in the no ammo maelstrom

[Djaresh]

@AccountMadeToReply

if you play enough auric maelstroms you’ll eventually come across some very ammo hungry builds in the CIVI(mostly melee no ammo) maelstrom and once they run out of ammo theyll start pinging for it over and over until someone tells them there isnt any ammo in the no ammo maelstrom

I mean I’m not going to lie, I’ve seen a lot of bad players in Maelstroms that definitely don’t belong there but I always thought of it that many people just suck and have to fail a few times until they either learn or stop playing those modes. The point is, Havoc has it’s very own terminal and the randoms you encounter there is diabolical, especially if you don’t have a mod that let’s you see their loadout before entering the mission. I’ve seen people bringing blue gear to high level Havoc missions. Imo, a separate terminal will just not fix the problem, this is just a player problem we have to live with I guess. Also it’s kind of funny to see someone empty their whole ammo pool only to realize they ain’t getting any back in a mostly melee.

[Index]

@Djaresh

until they either learn or stop playing those modes

after 3 years since maelstrom its safe to say they do neither

[dunnothisguy]

@MaxxJ

To keep people from just clicking all the way to the end and joining the run with the most rewards.

Then don’t give “most rewards” there, problem solved? Make them the same as in Auric. Very much doubt that people who play Maelstrom care about 20% more useless resources they have nothing to spend on, already. Rewards should be completely irrelevant to the question of balance of such high difficulties, tbh. It should assume you play them cause you enjoy it.

@MaxxJ

We already can’t QP into maelstrom games so that means people are intentionally picking something they’re not ready for.

Having a separate terminal though, for effectively the same game mode, hurts QoL, and seems completely unreasonable to boot. Like, you can at least understand why Havoc, Mortis Trials or Expeditions are separated - they are completely different (but would it be me, I would just implement access to them in separate tabs on the Mission Terminal, separating them completely like that is stupid and inconvenient). But in your proposal’s case it’s literally just an extra difficulty on top of Auric. I’m still convinced it isn’t required and you can solve the issues you anticipate in a different way (like not providing any extra rewards for playing that difficulty, as I suggested above).

[MaxxJ]

@dunnothisguy

Then don’t give “most rewards” there, problem solved? Make them the same as in Auric. Very much doubt that people who play Maelstrom care about 20% more useless resources they have nothing to spend on, already. Rewards should be completely irrelevant to the question of balance of such high difficulties, tbh. It should assume you play them cause you enjoy it.Auric

I’ve actually seen people recommend auric maelstrom specifically for the payout a lot over the years though. Not everyone has all characters maxed out and every new class drop at 30 within 2 or 3 days, with all new weapon masteries maxed via purchasing weapons strictly for the sake of salvaging. Heck, it isn’t even that auric maelstrom is that hard, it’s that people are in over their head for a slew of other reasons; difficulty chasing, penance grind, currency farming, weapon drops from winning, power leveling… that last one is way more common lately, I keep seeing people yet to hit 30 joining into them and just hoping for the best.

@dunnothisguy

Having a separate terminal though, for effectively the same game mode, hurts QoL, and seems completely unreasonable to boot.

Same only in that they share maps. What makes havoc different from auric maelstrom other than introducing more modifiers? The same can be said going from heresy to damnation, damnation to auric, then auric to auric maelstrom. More modifiers you didn’t deal with before, at the same time.

@dunnothisguy

Rewards should be completely irrelevant to the question of balance of such high difficulties, tbh. It should assume you play them cause you enjoy it.

This should be the case for havoc, because the amount of modifiers and that some of the modifiers are actually hard. I have my own reasons for wanting currencies even after the amount of hours I’ve invested. I want to see a million diamantine eventually lol

Honestly though dude if you’ve got a better idea then make a topic with your feedback. It’s how FS learns what needs to change. I’m not hung up on “we gotta have another terminal” and I’m sure there are pros and cons to both sides of this. I just want to see this get better and I know that it wont get taken seriously if I was to come in here going on about “these people are ruining games make them stop they shouldnt be allowed to play if they aren’t ready for it!” I promise I wont come over to your thread to poopoo on your ideas : P

[Vror]

Just make 3veg permanent, ez

[dunnothisguy]

@MaxxJ

Heck, it isn’t even that auric maelstrom is that hard, it’s that people are in over their head for a slew of other reasons; difficulty chasing, penance grind, currency farming, weapon drops from winning, power leveling

Dude, I honestly believe you are way, way overestimate meaning of those resources to people. With all due respect, I don’t believe a typical low-skill player (the one you assume is ruining your games in Maelstrom cause they don’t have the skill to play it) will subdue themselves to the torture of high difficulty high-octane gameplay for some extra credit rewards - when they can simply play one extra game on lower difficulty and get about the same extra resources. Or farm current event’s rewards on Heresy. Suffices to say, in my 2k hours in the game, I never, even once, considered “farming” anything. Actually I don’t farm in any games, if some games really requiring farming to play it, I drop it. Most games don’t though, even if people try to convince you otherwise. DT doesn’t too, you just play it normally, on difficulties you enjoy, use a few shortcuts developers offered you (event rewards, Havoc weekly reward) - and in time you’ll just get what you need. Busting your guts “farming” something is certainly not the way.

Also, you contradict yourself at this point. If all those people want to farm it that bad, separate terminal won’t stop them and will be complete waste of developers’ time. Farming by definition assumes a lot of dedication (which I lack as you can guess now, for example), so running to a separate terminal is a little obstacle on their way. But again, I believe you’re wrong cause farming - again, by its own nature - is about shortcuts and getting something in most optimal way. Playing highest possible difficulty you can’t really handle is not the optimal way at all.

@MaxxJ

Honestly though dude if you’ve got a better idea then make a topic with your feedback. It’s how FS learns what needs to change.

I thought a topic on a public forum assumes discussions though? That’s why comments are open. You can’t realistically only expect support for your idea, and no criticism at all. Normally I would just ignore it, would it be something not really that impactful on what is important for me. But I don’t want to run to yet another terminal to play a Maelstrom game, and then run back to play other base difficulties - without any (reasonable) justification for that, sorry.

I don’t even object there could be some separation from other missions (in form of a new difficulty level you need to grind for), moreover, I was supporting extra difficulty on top of Auric before myself, with tons of extra modifiers (including former events’ and Havoc’s modifiers) - but strong “no” for those terminals spreading around like plague sorry.

[MaxxJ]

@dunnothisguy

Also, you contradict yourself at this point. If all those people want to farm it that bad

It can be both, doesn’t have to be one or the other. There are definitely people running auric maelstroms for currencies. Hell, not even a week ago I tried to put a group together in the discord for auric maelstrom and one of the people brought a level 8, then started begging and pleading for us to take him. He was after materials/money/exp. Saying people aren’t joining auric maelstroms for anything but a challenge is just incorrect, or you’ve been extremely lucky in your solo ques for 2000 hours.

@dunnothisguy

I thought a topic on a public forum assumes discussions though

I think you’re reading me with the wrong tone man, I wasn’t making accusations. I’m not under the delusion that something I say on the Internet is going to be met with pure praise. I’m just saying if you’ve got an idea that’s different from mine to improve maelstroms then post it in the feedback with details and such.

[Ryshek]

We’re so starved for neat modifiers in the base game. I want to see them come down from havoc ;_;