Unlike the smaller variant, this one has a strange, overhead swing animation, that is much slower, and results in both less usage as an emergency counter attack, or as a DPS tool somehow. I feel it should also be a long stab.
4 Likes
I donāt understand why the MK III helbore has such a terrible special and why we canāt get a stab motion with this one? It takes forever to use.
3 Likes
Because so few people make serious use of blades today, a great many do not understand them.
The āchopā is really a good example of it. Itās something that is goofy to someone with even a little bit of study.
Why? Because deep cuts canāt be inflicted this way. Old spears found in museums are built with a large cross section to the blade, which is to say itās so thick it is unlikely to break but totally useless for cutting, only for stabbing. If you want a spear that can cut, you want a glaive or a partisan, which are also in the museum and have much larger heads then āspears.ā
A bayonetted rifle is much more like a spear then a glaive. You might be able to build an axe blade onto a gun, and some have (there are historic examples) but they are all wide blades, not narrow like a bayonet.
Similarly, actual killing with a knife focuses on deep penetrating stabs, not cuts. You might get in a slice here and there, but itās not the main function. An actual knife fight is more like wrestling with a spike then a fencing match.
But people donāt know that, so we see wild swings with knives and chops with bayonets and spears which would have far less effect on the target then coroner reports will tell us the ācorrectā technique would.
3 Likes
Agreed. This is one case where normalization would benefit the class of weapons. The chop is hard to use, has bad hit mechanics, and looks bad.
2 Likes
All bayonet attacks should be quick stabs.
They could come with the option to do a havy stab, like the Heavy 1 of krubers spear in vermintide 2.
You can keep holding the weapon ready to stab, as long as you want to (just hold down the key).
And while you hold it, you walk a bit faster.
1 Like
Iāve made a note to only use Helbore Mk I or II, just for how the bayonet stabs.
I could definitely get behind the idea of a āchargedā stab. Like you click the special it thrusts, you hold it, it charges for a heavy attack with a longer delay.
The problem i am having with the MK III āChopā is that it doesnāt what i need it to. So far iāve been using the MK I with its quick stab and while playing Auric that is perfect. It does what i need it to. It kills a Poxwalker with a headshot. Quick stab to the head, and i can focus on shooting again. If there are more enemies, then the melee weapon comes out and then that is it for shooting for a while. Unless i brought Infiltrate there is no getting the Helbore out again midfight once i commit to melee. And i am fine with that.
But the MK III has this very slow and awkward chop. I mean, a Bayonet is meant to be used as a spear. You donāt chop with it, i absolutely agree with that. It is insane to chop with a bayonet. The attachment points aināt that secure and youād rip the bayonet from the barrel, or worse, hit the barrel tip onto a hard surface and turn the whole thing into a giant lever bending the barrel. It is a quick way to spoil your rifle. Which is why you āClubā with the back end, not the front end, if you have to club, and you hold it further up so you have less chance of bending the barrel. And i am not meaning to say you turn it into an L shape. Just a 1mm will spoil your accuracy.
But that isnāt what bothers meā¦ if you want to be unrealistic about it, fine, future age construction materials that defy physics and suchā¦ but it needs to be functional from a gameplay perspective and it simply isnāt.
It doesnāt allow me to quickly dispatch a Poxwalkerā¦ the slow chop forces me to dedicate myself to meleeā¦ and if there are 3 Poxwalkers, then it is actually quicker for me to pull out my melee weapon than to use this awkward chop. It absolutely defeats the purpose of this special. It is slow to use, awkward in the execution and if there is more than one enemy or my aim isnāt 100% trueā¦ i am stuck in a very awful position of needing to pull my melee weapon anyway.
Meanwhile with the MK Iā¦ its stab, stab, stabā¦ and i can actually be back in the game. The MK Iās stab is super fun to use. It does just the right amount of damageā¦ it is a fun gameplay mechanicā¦ it looks and feels good. And i donāt understand why the MK III needed this alternative mechanic that is the absolute opposite of it.