Lore-Discussion: Is Bardin an outcast chaos dwarf?

Some of the dialogue that pops up now after one of the recent patches makes me think there is something that might hint towards Bardin being somehow involved with chaos dwarves and that Sienna seems to have gotten a clue about that.

I mean three very particular pieces of dialogue:

  1. Keep dialogue with Sienna and what is happening with fire magic further east, with Sienna saying that she “disagreed” with someone and Bardin chuckling about it. The “Ah! So you’ve heard!” part somehow sounds like Bardin appears a bit flustered.
  2. Dialogue on “The Blightreaper” when Bardin beings to talk about the Blightreaper and his creator, apparently being very well-versed about it, but not telling too much about it. Again, it is Sienna that pressures him about telling more, but he keeps to the notion that his “folks back home” wouldn’t want him to talk about it further.
  3. Dialogue on “Halescourge”: Bardin starting a discussion about how lifting platforms work, and that his kind preferes water, steam or draught animals. Yet again, it is Sienna who then interjects “… or Slaves?”, with Bardin being caught a little off-guard by this comment and reluctantly admitting that this was “an option”. Chaos Dwarves are very well known for their use of slaves, their incredibly high demand in slave labour and them trading alot of their weapons with human chaos worshippers for slaves.

I am not saying that he ever was a chaos dwarf, but with him obviously having a problem returning back home, maybe his tribe turned towards chaos at some point and so he fled? I know that his whole “not being able to return” thing may also hint towards him actually being fram Karak Zorn and having trouble finding back to it (The dialogue with Sienna about her wondering how a dwarf could be incapable of finding the entrance back to his keep or why they seemingly have no problem to lock themselves in for millenia, with Bardin again hinting towards that he seems to know how this kind of decission could come to life, also kinda hints towards that), but I can’t help but feel there might be something there.
Would also kinda tie in how and why he might vow the oath of the Slayer, with his tribe having turned to chaos, he might feel that he has to make ammends for that.

What are your thoughts about that?

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I am trying to think of every reason possible to try and say that you’re wrong, but it sorta fits… which blows, but still…

How weird. Yeah, he is searching for a Dwarven Hold which doesn’t exist because it’s his “quest,” he can’t go home for reasons he can’t/won’t explain. Kerillian pokes and prods, initially saying that if he’s avoiding home that-

he interjects and says “Choose your next words carefully, zarin.” Could that be implication that he still loves his home/clan and respects them deeply but is appalled at their turning to Chaos? Maybe he is getting defensive of them, much like a sibling could get protective of family despite an ill-remembered past.

To which Kerillian says no, I just feel bad. I hate being away from home, too, and I hate for anyone to suffer the same fate.

Weird. I really hope not… he is such a nice guy and I’d hate to hear that his lore is super sad. He has to leave the people he loves because they are becoming maniacal murderers and slavers. Imagine if he had a lover and he/she was in on it, that would’ve destroyed the poor fellow.

Is that why he keeps calling everyone dawi? I get that the Uber-Doober 5 shared a lot of comraderie, but what if he’s so heartbroken about losing his last home that he wants to find a new family in those folks not who share blood with him but share a passion for good?

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YEs these rambelings are interesting.

Karak Zorn

Is the Eldorado of Warhammer many dwarfs search for it. It’s highly unlikely he’s from there.

Dwarfs are pretty uncorruptible.
The forefathers of the chaos dwarfs where cut of from he rest of the dwarf empire and faced certain death back when the chaos gates first opened. They found and turned to worship some kind of deamon. They have no allegiance to any chaos deity but the deamon can be considered a minor god like the horned rat.

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I totally agree; which is why I find it so intriguing. It’s specifically the dialogue with Sienna that @Kekmaster mentioned which makes me doubt. It may actually be that he is from one of those clans and defected to try to find a dwarven utopia?

I dunno, but it’s certainly food for thought. I have also always wondered why he had the Slayer career… it seems like he would be the absolute last dwarf to need to pay for his failures; with the way he acts, I can only imagine that he would hold true to his family/tenants until the day he died. It could certainly be him breaking away from a Chaos-Dwarf clan and trying to pay homage to the other clans by taking the Slayer Oath.

It doesn’t entirely make sense with his Ironbreaker career, however, which gives me hope.

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This isn’t like the rat men. It exists they just lost contact and forgot it’s accurate position.

Spoiler

It’s in the very south of the world edge mountains. Not that that isn’t a huge region XD
So his plan to go to Barak Varr sounds reasonable.

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I agree that it is unlikeley, but the dialogue with Sienna makes me think that MAYBE that is an option, if an unlikely one. I mean, it would totally make sense for him to become defensive when probed about why he seems to have no intention to return any time soon (trying to hide the shame that he has indeed forgotten how to get back) and again being somewhat flustered when Sienna asks him about how such a thing as forgetting where your keep is is even possible. He might actually be a Scout sent out from Zorn to see what the world is comming to and to gather information about whether to stay in hiding or not. I think some of his dialogue can be interpreted this way, and it would kinda make sense that during the end times, IF there are dwarves still living in Karak Zorn, they’d send some of their kind out to see what is what. There isn’t that much lore established about Karak Zorn, so whether dwarves still dwell there or not is not even established. Still, I don’t dismiss this notion straight away, as unlikely as it may be.

True, and the history of the chaos dwarves would contradict him belonging to a hold of chaos dwarves. But at some point, a connection to his dark cousins might have played a major roll in his life, as he has obviously spent more than just a fleeting thought about them and the Blightreaper dialogue suggests that he is actually somewhat versed with them.
I thought they worshipped Hashut in general, but I might be wrong there.

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Interesting… never really gave him much thought. I’ve always been more curious as to what kerillian saw with that mage that made her leave the woods. Doesn’t the empire have pretty good relations with the dwarven kingdoms though? I know salty even mentions this in some of his voice lines. Really hope future DLCs shed more light on the dwari and elgi.

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To summarize Bardin from V1:
He came to Übersreik in search of the dwarf community (i kinda remember that he was going trough human towns just doing that), for something to translate a text/treasure map for Karak Zorn, and this one should still be in his possession. It is written in an old Khazalid dialect (as in a different kind of alphabet, deviant from Klinkarhun) He met Kerillian (and some unlucky skaven) outside of town before getting more info and was then ‘recruited’ into Lohners Ü5. He also knew that there would be an dwarven tome in Übersreik. All can be read here. At some point he got the tip from Kruber (and i remember that conversation from V1) where it should be. He told Bardin where exactly the only dwarven antiquity shop in the town was (Bardin thanked Kruber, saying he would not forget the favor). During one mission, can’t figure out which, Bardin remarks to one shop to be the one in question, but it was burning at the time and he was not that set back by it, just writing the tome of to be lost. It’s kind of blurry in my memory, as i have only heard it once, and getting specific voicelines for certain landmarks by specific chars is very hard, although not as interruptable as in V2.

All that Dawi-Zharr talk first came up in V2.
If the story for Bardin continues, i really hope they get back to that treasure map, to be honest :smile:.

As to @SmokerT69: ‘Aid Dwarf-folk’ is one of the Cult of Sigmars 5 strictures.

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An interesting and fun theory (if one I don’t find believable). Chaos Dwarves are usually born with Chaos mutations - even Dwarves are not immune to it - and he’s certainly not 8k years old. That’s longer than any Dwarve’s lifespan.

All Dwarves are pretty touchy about the Dawi-Zharr, though, so his grumbling makes sense.

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While a fun theory, I will have to write it off as unlikely.

Bardin (at least according to the official website) has both served as an Ironbreaker in Karak Norn, a Ranger Veteran in both Karak Norn and Karak Ziflin, and mentions a “Barak Varr handshake” as well as Dwarfs in Barak Varr that owe him, implying that he has lived in Barak Varr or even came from there originally.

However, none of these Dwarf holds fell to the worship of Chaos during the End Times. In fact, there hasn’t been a single recorded instance of a Dwarf hold falling to the worship of Chaos in newer times, the only ones we know of being the ones in the east, those that are several hundred years old.

That being said, I do agree that Bardin does have an awful lot of information about the Chaos Dwarfs (as well as an unnatural willingness to talk about them, albeit indirectly). However, I’m not convinced that his knowledge of the Dawi-Zharr comes from personal encounters with them. Rather, I think it stems from Bardin having studied a lot about them.

I mean, think about it. Sifting through old Dwarfen texts trying to find some mention of Karak Zorn, he’s bound to stumble upon records of the Dawi-Zharr at some point.

He does seem like a curious fellow, so his curiosity might have led him to conduct even more research on his fallen kin in the east, perhaps too much for the tastes of his fellow Dwarfs.

The Chaos Dwarfs are a touchy subject for the uncorrupted Dawi, and are often looked upon with shame and disdain, an abomination to be eradicated when the time comes. Perhaps Bardin’s willingness to learn about them, along with his mad ramblings about sending an expedition to Karak Zorn put him at odds with his fellow Dwarfs, and might even have led him to being exiled from the holds.

This would explain why he can’t return home. His kind have shunned him, and now his newfound comrades are the only ones he has left. Bardin becoming a Slayer might be him doubting himself and realizing that chasing after Karak Zorn is a fool’s errand, and to live with the shame and to try and redeem himself, he takes the Oath.

Another possibility is that his hold has simply been destroyed. This is the End Times after all, the end of all things. Perhaps his hold (whichever one it may be) was one of the first to fall. However, I do doubt this. Not only because I can’t remember if the Dwarf holds were the first to fall during the End Times (as I can’t recall every single event), but also because it wouldn’t make sense why Bardin would try to hide its fall. He didn’t seem that upset about the fall of Karak Azgaraz in the first game.

On a side note, I seriously doubt that Bardin himself comes from Karak Zorn. Though the thought is entertaining, it would go against a lot of things that have already been written about him.

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This actually makes a lot of sense and I appreciate you fielding it!

It does make a lot of sense; if his hold was destroyed he could have taken the Slayer-Oath for a dozen reasons (unable to save his kin, abandoning the hold/not being there when it fell, etc), his service as an Ironbreaker away from his home is better justified, and his Ranger-Veteran career was always justified because of Vermintide 1.

Yay! He isn’t a Chaos Dwarf!

Hopefully.

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Yes, you are probably right. But that would be kinda booooooooring :stuck_out_tongue:

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