Rare based take from Jakal ? what the hell happening ?
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As far as gameplay goes, It is BECAUSE they are different games that I am only drawing conclusions based on how the game is managed on the dev side. Saying how X game does X gameplay element better muddies the waters. It’s really almost like a comparison of the devs themselves rather than the game they created.
Conclusion in short? Arrowhead Games are doing way better than FatShark at managing their game, their community (that dumb Discord incident aside), and expectations.
As much of a drag it is to read @Ol_Jakal blame community for not enjoying the game correctly for the 40’000th time. This I agree with. If FatShark is going to stick with the current crafting model, then they need to just freaking iterate it clearly and concisely. Sorry @fatsharks none of this "Rejects!"
Corpo Statement crap. Just. Say. So. So. We. Don’t. Have. To. Keep. Pointlessly. Debating.
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This wasn’t my point at all. Like I said matchmaking was down for a bit which is probably why you couldn’t find someone. Just that the best content in HD is faster accessible than in Darktide.
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The higher you go in difficulty, the more likely it is to run into competent mates.
DT taught me that - and while I too had some QP stints, I’m the kind of person that organizes and plays in pre-mades.
I’ve so far ran just a few QPs in HD2, all were solid, but were T8s.
I see you’re more of a solo/quickplay player, which is admirable - this point of view is a good comparison, I think.
That said - I was there for the very first days of DT release. It was… very much the same as HD2 - server issues, AMD troubles, people not knowing what they’re doing on Malice… As part of the lesson DT taught me, I organized many pals for HD2’s release, and we had 2 teams on launch (which is also why we didn’t run into any connection issues).
In a sense, a lot of what you get out of these coop games amounts to what you put into them, but I completely agree that there should be options to go right into matches, and with HD2’s matchmaking being broken on launch, it didn’t leave a good impression. A final point - there’s only so much you can see for those 2 hours (I generally resent this policy, but I understand why it’s there).
Which one? There were… several noteworthy ones. I was there for the Day of “F”. That was truly funny! 
We give the Ol’ Jakal a hard time, but sometimes, you have to say it how it is. I don’t think a single person is truly satisfied with that aspect of FS’ work, whatever the reason behind it may be. Arrowhead scored a lot of community points with their coms, quick updates, very responsive CMs and their CEO being solid on social media. For a Live Service game, this is a very important aspect, come to find out…
Unfortunately, that good will is a resource and it burns fast, and I feel that even if FS start taking measures to improve, whatever is left of the community and those that’ll return their attention to DT will hostile, to say the least. It’s hard to regain lost faith, specially for a faceless corporate entity.
(quick edit - furthered that last thought)
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And add to the fact that it takes until difficulty 5 for all enemies to be present in a mission. For termanids, spewers don’t appear until 3, chargers at 4 and bile titans at 5. For Automatons, you don’t get some variations of devastators until 3, tanks till 4 and hulks at 5. Enemy base complexity increases with difficulty too capping at 5 where automaton bases have those massive gun turrets, mortars, jammers and anti-ait sites start popping up.
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Helldivers 2 feel like it was made with passion and had the players in mind during it’s creation. Definitely deserved the success it has gotten.
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My issues wasn’t not having competent teammates in HD2. The issue I had was not having any teammates. At all.
I feel like I need to separate some things here. Performance issues are one thing (i.e. “AMD troubles”). Players not knowing what they’re doing on Malice is another. And finally - server issues. Due to the different game architecture it seems that if there’s a server issue in HD2 you’re going to be left playing solo (with no bots or anything). At least, that’s the only way I can explain what happened to me - i.e. I seriously hope the matchmaking was just offline / overloaded, and isn’t just… this bad. But other than being all alone the game gave no indication that anything was wrong, so ultimately I don’t know.
But really, I can’t shake the feeling that HD2 might as well not be a 4-player co-op game. I mean, any time a game which advertises itself as “co-op” but lets one play solo without other people (nor bots to fill the gaps) then it’s not really a co-op game. I.e. the mechanics inherently do not demand cooperation, at least not until you hit those peak difficulty levels. And then the co-op becomes mandatory purely because of raw numbers - i.e. enemies have X HP, a solo player can dish out Y dmg, and Y << X therefore the solo player will get quickly killed.
Outside of obvious performance issues such a change would incur - you could make HD2 an 8, 16, 32 player game, up the enemy counts accordingly and make the map bigger - would things change?
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that’s literally the reason people are trying to shame darktide into being more like helldivers: they want a game made for “true solo” and fatshark is making a co-op game.
Of all the things we’ve shamed, tried to shame and memed DT for - that is sincerely not high on my list. I’ll say that soloing in both games is a good challenge. I’ve done a few in both games. It’s not my preferred way of playing them. But it’s there. You can do it. Hopefully, you do it for the challenge, and not because you have to…
That said, I was trying to change the subject, since you made your point and it was discussed. But since we have to - the reason no one joined your game is, once more, because of the main Order every new cape gets - finish one dive. And since the only difficulty you have is 1, everyone does a one. Nobody is going to join on a 1/4 lvl1, so unless you have a premade, you do your first dive alone. Trying to gauge the mechanics of a Live Service co-op game in 2 hours is quite the errand, come to find out.
Now, let’s really separate some things - no coop game needs to make sure that players can play alone. It’s… umm, in the name. But it’s understood that some people will want/have to - so all good such games have some kind of mechanic to allow it. It’s not their focus. In fact - it shouldn’t be.
Both HD2 and DT give you options. The difference is - DT throws out the most bland and uninspired solution (3 vet bots, go nuts), while HD2 doesn’t pretend that it wants you to play solo at all - if you want to solo dive, you better know what you’re doing. Which is why it’s acceptable to do your first dif1 alone, maybe even a 2, or a 3. And then, you’re supposed to figure out that this 4 player, coop game with both obvious and intricate coop mechanics might be intended as a… multiplayer experience?
I get that not everyone has pals, or wants pals, or… whatever the argument is. But then, completely directly - maybe focus more on single player games? I hear those have mtx as well. And some recent ones are so good, they don’t even have that… The times we live in…
Yes. Had you played for longer and with people you’d know what 4 people can do to each other with full friendly fire and just a smidge of disorganization, or just some bad luck… 8? Heh, maybe for the memes. 16?! That’d be a sigh! But seriously? No.
Now, what was the comparison again? Aside from the ones we’ve already gone over?
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These two just don’t add up. If the first dive is solo by design (outside of a premade team), then it’s an absolutely abysmal first impression. Even if the same is true for DT (which I honestly can’t recall - perhaps I’ll start a new operative just to check) then you still get 3 bots and their banter to liven up the experience.
That’s why I’m so annoyingly insistent here. From the first quote I was under the impression that I did something wrong or the game bugged out, since you’ve rated this is “serviceable” (and rated it just like you did DT). Anyway - I’ll give HD2 one more game to see what the actual team-play looks like, but I’ll firmy stand on this “HD2 does a terrible first impressions” hill.
What kind of an argument is this? I think you’re massively confusing the idea of solo play and matchmaking.
You can have games that allow for the freedom to play solo AND in a co-op setting with automatic difficulty adjustments as needed for the number of players (or some that don’t require such adjustments at all, depending on game type).
Then you have games that must be played with other people (that’s your DT, your L4D or anything else that typically has “disablers”).
And then you have this weird section of co-op games which seem to throw in the towel and go “whatever”, like Magica (i.e. you can play solo, but by the gods you’ll have a miserable time). Or, seemingly, HD2 first dive.
I’ve no problems playing co-op games with other people. My only issue is with games that require you to bring your own friends to the party - all of my real-life friends have kids and most certainly cannot invest the same time I can (at least before I get a little spawn of my own to suck all of MY free time 
).
…and a bigger map. Sure, cram enough players into a small enough space and enable FF and it won’t be long till someone misses the grenade throw. That’s why I suggested scaling the map.
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For all the stuff thrown at DT and praise heaped on HDII in the comparisons between the two, I don’t think I’ve once seen this bit in there, much less be the core focus of what people were debating around.
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The fact that you couldn’t squad up in less than two hours is a personal criticism, which has little to no importance to the conversation anymore. If the point was to compare how HD2 and DT manage new players through their initial experience - I believe we’ve done that. If the argument is that HD2 doesn’t care for bots so it’s not coop - I hope I don’t have to even make a counter-argument. I really don’t feel I should. If I missed the point, and it wasn’t just your personal experience - forgive me, I have ogryn brain.
Now - the idea behind this thread is to compare the two games. I believe you’ve contributed very well with your points, hence the change of subject, aimed at different comparisons. There’s no hill here, and you don’t have to stand on it. You’ve made your point, you don’t have to make me or anyone agree. Whoever reads this can make their own mind.
I do think your approach to these kinds of games is important to note, and worth giving a though to. I also think that while accounting for said approach, none of these games were intended for it.
I love my BOSCO, but he’s not what makes DRG awesome. The bots in VT2 were outstanding (for the most part), but that’s not what made that game great. And when considering DT and HD2, and comparing them, I’d say that bots or a bunch of other fresh capes - you’ll get the same idea of what the game is like, on a dif1-2, and past that initial point (which is what the comparison was for) - the games push you to either organize or Solo Q.
Anything outside this, I feel, is veering into “didn’t play past refund hours, but I think…” territory, and that’s not constructive. Or true, for the most part. Note -
The second part of this paragraph is factually wrong, outright.
I’d say, lastly, that trying out HD2 again is a good personal choice, but also not the point of this thread. Still, if it made you consider, it’s an added benefit.
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You guys are all overthinking this.
Here are some simple images to sum up the situation at each companies HQ:
Arrowhead
Fatshark
Probably.
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