kruber spear have stagger higher than 2hd hammer it can stagger even CW on pushes, its have equal stagger power to shield
Spear is a jack of all trades, master of none. Good for everything, great for nothing… indeed it has more weakpoints compared with other weapons.
Spear has the same value of stagger as 2h Hammer, but on only half of its attacks, because its combo to deal with hordes is light attack > heavy attack. During the light attack, that is a thrust one, not only you don’t stagger… but there is a risk to be hit;
Always because half of Spear’s attacks are thrust type, Spear inflicts less damage toward hordes than Exe Sword, wich has an entire combo of sweep attacks;
Both Exe Sword and 2h Hammer (but also other weapons) have a much better damage vs armors;
As said, first Spear’s attack is a thrust type; this means that, when you are surrounded, you must push more often compared with weapons that start their combo with a sweep attack. Spear uses more stamina. Moreover the risk to be hit is higher. Moreover again: if you get surrounded and you haven’t stamina, probably you will die.
And obviously Shields have more defensive power and more stagger. Armory mod says that Shield’s bash has a stagger value of… 4? 6? But I don’t know if it’s a bug of if Shield’s bash works in another way… but clearly it has more stagger.
As you can see, when we compared Spear with “”“top tier weapons”"" (simply the most used), it has pro and cons. It can do a little of everything, but it doesn’t reign in any field. So there isn’t reason to nerf it. Even if we take mid tier weapons, like Halberd or 2h Sword, they have their advantages.
The point is always the same: we must start to buff the unused weapons. We have many weapons totally boring to use, because fighting with them seems beating a wall with a spoon.
We have old beta section, feedback section, Reddit, Steam’s reviews and more polls to understand what most players want. If we nerf everything actually has an impact on enemies, everything that can deal with the new stagger system, the game will become more boring.
P.S: we already talked about this, I don’t know because you have re-written this… but honestly I don’t want repeat myself again so I will not write anymore. If you quote me, you can still see my answers on the other thread.
Cmon, spear stagger is broken. Its like having a shield without having a shield. You dont have disadvantage of carrying shield weapon (slow move, slow AS, crap cleave) and you got insane reach
Its not worth reading him when he can’t see facts, shield being stagger weapon have equal stagger power to spear
And funfact i forgot that 2hd hammer cant stagger cw with pushes, its seems i was wrong with comparing because spear = shield not 2hd hammer, that stagger cleave made my think it was 2hd hammer but seems that 2hd hammer have lower stagger power (what is dumb as hell)
If Spear has the same defensive power and stagger (and I repeat, it’s not enough see only the stagger value, but also how many attacks have that value and the combo) as a Shield, we play different game. For this reason I have said “good for everything, great for nothing (Spear can’t reign in any field)”.
I have written some objective aspects… maybe it’s not me that can’t “see facts”… but really I don’t care. For me it was enough remember what (imho) it’s the “truth” about Spear. Then will be Fatshark’s decision.
I wrote another message just because the other user didn’t read the old thread… but now I really finished.
Spear have same effective block range and x0,3 (shields have x0,2) stamina cost, have same stagger power (actually I think its have higher because its can stagger hookrat and shield can’t )
You didnt write one fact, spear is master of all bad at nothing right now its have no bad sides.
-good cleave 8,47 with tank(every trash have tank, and sv its actually better than linesman, only heavy linesman is better),
-great and ease point damage,
-is fast, make you move faster with attacks,
-a lot of stamina and block cost is low,
-same range of block like shield with mace (sword shield have lower),
-have push range higher than non shield weapons (only sword and shield have higher),
-can snipe elites in horde without problem,
-3 dodges is enough to counter 0% bonus for dodge
Only bad sides i can find it teach you that you can stagger everything
Sorry, it’s ridicolous, I know… but when I see certain lies, I can’t re-write.
Good stagger and good cleave only on half of its attacks. Shield and 2h Hammer do twice as much the Spear stagger. As Exe Sword, for the same reason, does much more damage toward hordes. Both 2h Hammer and Exe Sword has much more armor damage… etc etc etc, as you can see, objective facts vs opinions.
Yeah i see facts vs your opinion
BTw poke can stagger nearly everything that can stagger its heavy, another of your nonfact lies flat
A thrust attack hits much less enemies than a sweep attack.
p.s it has a stagger value less than 5, if I remember well. Anyway a very low one.
Are you sure you are not misunderstanding info from armory? Because there is no shown stagger power only cleave for damage and stagger.
Pokes from spear can intterupt SV overhead when you headshot him or crit, and thats (and ofc push what is bs value no other weapon than shield can do it)
Cleave Limit (Damage/Stagger): 2,12 - 2,12… is it a good value?!
Anyway, I repeat: a thrust attack hits very few enemies, it’s totally useless to stagger (or damage) an horde. For sure much much much weaker than a sweep attack.
Its cleave limit, like I said, its show how much enemies it will go through, damage and stagger have 2 different values for cleave, it will stagger more enemies but only few first will get damaged (2hd hammer heavies)
2.12 means that it will cleave through 2.12 mass (each enemy have mass slaves have 2 in that way it will cleave through 2 slaves rat [2,12-2=0,12 that means it will have still any amount to hit/stagger another]of course without any modificators from staggered status or linesman/tank/heavy linesman)
Stagger power is different kind of bread its have its own value that work against stagger stagger resist enemies have for each of their animation (and idle)
spear sweep have higher stagger power, but still pokes can stagger sv overhead and thats one of harder things to stagger (only few weapons can stagger it at all)
And you are comparing attack that is equall to exe heavies attack. Its not for horde its for elites
It’s enough quote myself:
For this reason 2h Hammer/Shield will be always better to stagger hordes and Exe Sword will be always better to damage hordes (and I can remember to you as both 2h Hammer and Exe Sword have better damage vs armors). And again for this reason (and other ones) Spear is good for everything but the best for nothing.
You know the sweep attack damage through armor? For this reason shield is worse for hordes and 2hd hammer, because spear sweep stagger everything. Exe sword is worse for hordes its stops at any armored unit. And no 2hd hammer actually have worse armor damage, spear have higher headshot damage multiplier.
Spear lose in only alone armored unit vs exe but thats never a problem. (ironically exe is worse against bosses mostly because its slows you down and its slower)
I don’t agree. 2h Hammer stagger the entire horde, also if there are armored enemies (and stagger also them). Exe Sword slips through armored enemies and still damage the rest of the horde (and if you hit the head, it stagger/damage also armored enemies). Shields stagger always. And I still think that spamming light attacks with 2h Hammer vs an armored enemy deals much more damage.
Kruber’s spear has a unique Heavy Push profile on it’s push which happens to be more effective than shield pushes except against berserkers.
Really no reason for spear to be as good as shields and hammers in the stagger department.
Can make the case that it can have a solid push, but enough to stagger a chaos warrior? Come on.
I mean if it didn’t do that then it’d be garbage. Least it can somewhat compete with the executioners sword right now because while its still worse for dps it has better survivability for when things go wrong.
You mean like every other weapon that, and its still have better dps than exec
Spear’s dps isn’t so bad that it needs to be better at staggering enemies.