I’ve been using the Kickback non-stop after the buffs in patch 1.0.25 (my preferred difficulty is Hi-Int Damnation). My Kickback has no spectacular Blessings, but it has a 79% dmg modifier, +10% dmg against Specialists and +25% dmg against Maniacs.
I can 1-shot Dreg Ragers, 2-shot Mutants, 2-shot Bulwarks – if every pellet lands… (which isn’t guaranteed).
Unlike our explosive weapons which sends enemies flying in different directions, the Kickback makes enemies pleasantly fall down on the spot. Instantly and reliably at almost any range. I love this. I also love how the Kickback is quick to ADS and makes for a great “run’n’gun” playstyle. The Kickback gets a lot of ammo from the Veterans passive ammo regen when killing elites. I’ve also noticed the Kickback has a neat little suppress effect that’s nice.
However, the damage still feels low. I expect the Kickback to be a close-combat king, but the chances of bursting down a target in close combat feels unreliable. And often you only get one shot since you’re now in melee.
The damage fall-off is definitely improved, but I still end up having to spend 2-3 shots killing regular Scab/Dreg Shooters at ranges I’d expect the Kickback to one-shot them.
How is your experience with the improved Kickback? I think it still needs more…
Its most major problem right now seems to be that it flat-out has no good blessings. I can’t recall a single time where I looked at a Kickback’s blessings and thought to myself ‘Yeah, this might be useful…’, let alone one where I thought it might substantially change the weapon’s playstyle. The Run’n’Gun blessing that allows you to shoot while sprinting might do something, but I just can’t see how it would have a substantial impact when you can just slide or dodge already.
I think it’s pretty perfect now. In its niche it feels more in competition with ripper guns than GG, a competition I’d say it mostly wins currently. I’d like to see a significant ammo buff for Ripper guns as the next Ogryn ranged balance change.
Something else I’ve thought about is that a lot of the melee elites you’ll encounter have armor (Scab Rager, Maulers, Crushers). The Kickback doesn’t do well against these.
And then you have Infested enemies like Hounds which take 2 shots to kill. Realistically more shots since you want to shoot before they get close, they’re hard to hit, and frankly the stagger on them is so unreliable that I’m unlikely to use the Kickback in the first place.
Would make sense to me if the Kickback had better armor penetration and dmg against Hounds.
Kickback feels like it does fine on those. I think 2 shot flak rager on Damn. Might need flak perk. Also you can knock a whole group on their ass in one shot and the follow up is free.
TBH I just melee hounds basically on every class with every loadout anyway. Not a consideration for my ranged slot.
I think you misunderstood me. I didn’t mean that it didn’t compete with them because it’s worse, I meant it doesn’t compete with them because they fill the roll of covering Carapace damage when running BB. Nothing short of massive Carapace damage buffs would change that.
Also I’d already take kickback with me over Rumbler most days. Again if I’m taking GG one of the primary reasons is to cover BB’s biggest weaknesses. I don’t see any sensible ripper or kickback buffs changing that.
Another kickback enjoyer here. It’s fun and decent now. But blessings seems very insignificant, i don’t know maybe some of them will help to reach any breakpoints. But let’s say you got Pierce and Punishing Fire combo, will anyone build their playstyle around special atack to get some small buff? Probably not. In most situations it’s better to dodge slide and reload or just switch to melee
In my experience I can’t knock a whole group of Scab Ragers (4-6 of them) down in one shot as consistently as with an explosion since they’re usually running in front of each other and (almost always?) accompanied by other enemies, causing pellets to get blocked. Spreading pellets out over several elites doesn’t really do much damage, but the CC is always nice ofc. But as for close combat proficiency which you’d expect a Shotgun to be good at, I’d rather have a Grenadier Gauntlet against most of the melee elites.
Ok. Yet the Grenadier Gauntlet performs well against any target, armored or unarmored, can start dealing full damage long before melee elites reach you, and CCs everything around it without having to worry about pellets being blocked. Taking out melee elites like Ragers, Maulers, Crushers and even Bulwarks is a lot more effective for me with the Grenadier Gauntlet than it is with the Kickback.
I love the Kickback and still play with it because it’s fun and quick. But right now it feels like a hit-scan knockdown tool that’s not threatening enough in close combat against the enemies who want to engage in close combat.
I mainly play with Kickback now and it seems it just needs better blessings. It can clear columns of hordes pretty well if you just aim head-level. It knocks down elites if it doesn’t kill them with the first shot, which allows you to close the gap if they’re a little too far. It’s fun
Bumping that thread as I just got a Kickback with decent rolls but a miserable T1 full bore (which I do not intend to use that way).
So I tried to upgrade it but waifu Hadron did me dirty and offered the somewhat broken and useless Blaze Away.
So the Kickback can proc BA x1 but not further without investing in +10% Reload Speed, in which case it can reach BA x5 on successive hip fire shots (ADS breaks BA as it’s slightly longer to shoot).
I feel that the Kickback could use a balance pass and either remove BA and offer something else or balance it so it can proc BA x5 without the Reload Speed requirement.
So here’s what I ended up with:
(some useful cc and utility but not much in the dmg department…)
