Idk whats going on today, normally with my group I would say I have an 80-90% winrate for legend maps with books, but today… I just loaded into War Camp and 24 chaos warriors, yeah 24 were in the start zone, like before the drop down, just hanging out… prolly a bug or some other issue, but what the heck? Today has been ripe with bugs and issues and frankly with the difficulty tuned to what it is with the consitantly game breaking bugs its just not fun.
Unfortunately, this is not my understanding (or experience).
I believe it is much less, although I don’t believe FS has actually disclosed the drop rate. (My own guess is that it’s about 1/4 the % drop between Champion and Legendary difficulty.) This makes “endgame” grinding through Champion runs unappealing to the average user, as drop rates are exceedingly rare. (For me, this was one red item for 300+ hours of playtime. Edit: Note that this was time split between the various difficulties, not all spent on Champion runs… but it’s the best estimate I can give you.)
It would also be counterintuitive that FS would give Champion and Legendary runs the same drop rate percentage. If so, it would not properly incentive Legendary runs, which I don’t believe is intended. If they did implement this change, it might address the playerbase erosion but I expect it would dramatically decrease the use of legendary difficulty.
this. agree wholeheartedly
I haven’t been playing VT2 much recently, mostly because of how mean, apathetic, or both people are in pubs on the higher difficulties. My experience with the first game was to buy it right away, but get bullied out of having any fun for 40 hours or so until I called it quits - after Karak Azgaraz, I gave it another try and found that most of “those” players had left, and found the average pub player to be very nice, or at least easy to get along with on Cataclysm. This increased my interest in the game dramaticall… I’m hoping for the same to happen with this game.
This obviously a very personal and self-centered point of view, but I think it’s reasonable. I do think Legend needs some tweaking - it doesn’t need to be easier, just easier to manage. Cataclysm was hard, but the average pub game was a win, or at least a heroic defeat. That topic has been beaten into the ground though.
Most of that game time was before they buffed drop percentages
I love this game but honestly haven’t played it in about a month. And it isn’t because of difficulty but instability. I crash so much or have runs completely ruined by bugs that I end up pulling my hair out and feeling like I can’t play the game I bought to make it worthwhile. There are so many bugs that I don’t want to spend hours reporting them all. It feels like we are still playtesting an unfinished product and I came here for an actual game.
I cant stand Dev´s who screw the Difficulty for the “Average Player”, not everything must be for everyone and
Warhammer (Vermintide) isnt for the “Average Player” as well, most of V1 Player´s played it mostly for the incredible good Warhammer Atmosphere cause there are little good Warhammer Games.
Well, respectfully, I have to disagree. Ultimately, FS is a business (as is any development company)… and FS is a small indie developer, at that. I assure you that maximizing it’s playerbase is very important at this stage in its business development.
Frankly, IMO they would be crazy to take your approach… A business (particularly a small business) must primarily create content for its principal customers. The “non-average” customers can be an afterthought, if that help sell games… but if you make the endgame only for these players, then why would the average person continue on with the game (and later buy DLC or expansions or VT3, etc)?
Ergo, if you want to see more content from FS, you would be crazy to urge them to ignore the “average player.” VT1 and 2 are both, essentially, hack and slash games with “visceral” combat as the focus. They aren’t “thinking” games with a lot of hidden content to keep players going. The combat, or the cosmetic endgame content currently in place, must be sufficient to maintain the base.
VT1 resulted in a dedicated playerbase because it was difficult, but not too difficult, (like L4D), and fun and challenging (but not too overly challenging in the endgame content) for the average group of players… which has now resulted in a success in VT2. If this doesn’t keep up the 'base, it’ll be the end of the series.
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excuse me? why are you ignoring the fact that there are different difficulty modes in the game? if the “Average Player” does not want a challenge and does not want to learn the game or play to win, they can easily just stay in recruit to enjoy their time in vermintide.
the argument you are making is nonsensical to me. you want the “average player” to participate and get rewarded for the “end-game” without learning how to play the higher difficulty levels?
you’re kidding me. vt1 is every bit as challenging as vt2. cata is quite comparable to legend (minus the bugs which i’m confident they will iron out after some time)
https://steamdb.info/app/552500/graphs/
almost a million units sold defies your statement! could be more now that the graph is outdated.
You forgot to mention the most important thing about L4D2! It offers PVP while VT2 doesn’t and most likely never will.
Im sorry your right i was too inaccurate i was referencing to Cata from V1, it is now like Nightmare was at the release of the Game and Legend is getting the same treatment. For Example Skittergate: since Patch 1.0.6 there spawn no more Specials into the Fight with Rasknitt, no need to listen for Globadier´s or any sort of Special only Blight Monks but they are not a real Foe.
yea. i am quite sad they nerfed the bosses to oblivion and yet many people are still avoiding the maps or just dying so much in them. there was actually a lot of challenge with specials and elite rats running around while the bosses was shooting and throwing lightning at you, now the fight feels really empty. awareness on the 2 bosses and small ratties are the only things left in the fight, and once the stormfiend goes down the whole place is a ghost town.
similarly for halescourge, the only time things get hairy is when beserkers or maulers or chaos warriors jump down from the second level, otherwise everyone’s just full on dpsing the boss.
i like to think the chaos warrior and stormvermin bosses are quite good encounters at this stage. especially the recent change they made to remove 2x shieldvermins from spawning, replacing them with stormvermin, alleviated many problems with some slow builds not being able to kill them at all. the other two bosses were nerfed to the ground =(
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That’d be fine but loot doesn’t follow the same rules as VT1. Even if we ignored the reasonably high chance of getting good gear after every cata game there’s other problems. Non static patrols were a mistake and need to be fixed to not be able to spawn directly on top of you. It’s a serious breakdown in gameplay when my Legend team has remembered every single potential patrol spawn and just waits in front of them because of how frequently that happens so that they don’t drop down on us (Righteous Stand) or appear two feet in front of us (screaming bell, fort brack).
The globadier in particular is still the single most unfun thing to deal with with it’s tendency to throw over walls and LoS and do damage that has no reasonable way to be mitigated against making bringing a Waystalker or a Pyromancer a near necessity to deal with situations that occur because of the problems with this games spawns.
Cosmetics are more rare than can even be justified. The rarity of which has turned from hopeful expectation to bitter resentment. 300 hours and not seeing jack all isn’t rewarding at all and the inability to balance rates to reasonable levels that could adhere to time sink has rapidly killed motivation to play for either cosmetics or red.
Deed drop rates are too low. Especially given the amount of deeds that simply aren’t worth doing for their reward, this is something that should be fixed.
Lastly as time goes by meta builds go from being optional to mandatory in the eyes of pub groups. With the hivemind mentality based around them, people might likely get pressured to simply not engage in Legend runs with the level of difficulty combined with overall toxicity.
The solutions are stupidly simple.
- Increase red drop rates. Nobody is going to stop playing when they get reds that weren’t going to stop playing if they didn’t get reds.
- Increase cosmetic drop rates. Unless you have some long term community fragmenting plan like loot boxes incoming, this is ridiculous.
- Make a 5th difficulty. Challenger is to easy. Pubbing Legends is too hard (specifically why I have a Legend group)
- Fix patrol spawns
- Fix enemies attacking out of LoS. If this is a feature it’s a bad one. VT1 at least gave you the ability to be somewhat resistance to your globadier damage so that a single tick of poison wasn’t doing run ending levels of damage as it double tosses over a wall during a horde.
There seems to be ideas inside the dev team what real difficulty consists of. Enemy running attacks combined with hyper stacking is annoying. Waiting up to a minute around a corner for a globadier to walk in is annoying. Waiting and crawling through a level when we reach a potential patrol spot is annoying. No part of these problems are hard. Especially in a coordinated team. None of these things are hard to deal with. I like this game, but one of my friends has already washed his hand of the entire thing. Please do something about this.
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This shows an incredibly steep drop in population. This graph is the embodiment of this game dying crazy fast
eh? this is normal statistics for any game. check out the start few weeks for any big release titles. witcher 3, portal2, borderlands2 etc etc etc (click on the top titles section in the menu)
people buy the game, play it a while, then leave for whatever reason, normal stuff. the important thing to note is the difference between the popularity of vermintide 1 vs vermintide 2, v2 has already matched more than half the total sales of v1 in the first month. they’re doing SOMETHING right.
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ribspreader feels much better now that he isn’t getting stunlocked. i actually forgot how to fight him the first few times we ran into him since he’s never done anything up til this point. spinemanglr is really easy now though without the shieldvermin and monks showing up and with some of his melee getting nerfed. even if you don’t bug him out he’s really hard to lose to. still see some people die to rasknit cuz they dont shoot him and stop him from casting, but halescourge is…usually dead before he even spawns anything now.
they need to make champion what it’s supposed to be again rather than a mode where you run forward and spam LMB. legend is too hard to pub because people don’t know what they’re doing and the previous difficulties don’t teach them to play. there’s only about a 10% chance of getting somebody who actually knows what they’re supposed to be doing as a character. god help you if you and friend or friends need to fill in with more than one.
not to mention, it’d just be bitched about endlessly until it got nerfed into oblivion, which is how champion ended up this way in the first place.
What a coincidence.
i disagree. mechanics are the same on every difficulty, if you aren’t doing the right things on recruit, you’ll face the same issues. and difficulties don’t ‘teach’ people how to play, players teach themselves or learn from other players by observing.
i hate to say this, but people just need to git gud and practice on lower difficulties before attempting higher ones. the problem is that people just join high difficulties thinking they’re top stuff, but are actually getting carried, then blame it on the difficulty, ai director, bad spawns, boss+horde, number of disabler specials, weapon balance, talent tree, etc etc etc etc. an empty kettle makes the most noise.
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To be honest, I usually don’t like saying “git gud”, but I must agree with that.
Most of the failures in PUGs I can attribute to really poor teamwork.
Even situations where we faced bugs, patrols spawning around us during a horde together with a boss and eight specials, we may have dealt with them with some better teamwork.
Most people seem to just want to rush everything, running past active threats, aggroing the whole map, not dealing with specials until there’s ten of them chasing us etc.
Tutorial levels don’t teach you teamwork. Neither do most PUGs 
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if you don’t like the game then posting here won’t change that, all it’s going to do is encourage more doubt and speed up this death u are talking about.
what did you hope to achieve with this post?
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