I would also be interested to see how it would feel with 16 pellets with the same total damage. It might make the damage more consistent at the weapons different ranges, but since there’s no damage increase it wouldn’t get stronger for single target attacks. Also if it were 16 pellets you’d have a two octagon spread instead of hexagons which would be a lot easier to line up with targets.
I want to kick every single shotgun user from my games.
Becouse instead of tons THP from hordes you will get no thp and just tons of FF in your arse.
You are very low - you see a horde.
Without shotgun users - you are full THP right now.
With shotgun users - you are dead beceouse they killed all trash mobs and killed you with FF.
Problem with a shotguns are the same as with Flamers - hordes are not a threat, they are source of thp.
So:
- You cant help wih bosses and most of elites and specials
- You remove main source of THP from your team.
- You deals tons of FF (of course not you! You are the best player in the world)
You are so useful, i want you in my team so badly(no)
So what’s your solution? Would you remove all horde-clearing ranged weapons from the game?
Yeah, this is the issue of playing normal modes unmodded and without higher difficulty affixes. There’s so much killing potential in the game that you have to ask your group to stop damaging half of the time.
The remedy to this is having Unchained, Sister, Merc, or a RV with the THP Ult.
Maybe, just maybe… hordes shouldn’t be seen as THP pools.
5 Likes
If a horde is nothing but a temp health delivery you’re not playing on the right difficulty. If you are actually playing at a difficulty that is hard for you, the sudden removal of all trash infantry in a difficult situation is the difference between a wipe and an easy win.
2 Likes
I never said the problem was close range shots. I said that the sniping function of the bow was ruined for the sake of allegedly good players who couldn’t make quick scopes in a video game. Because no one who is actually good at shooting in video games would agree that taking away the thing that makes you more accurate and targets larger would be an improvement to aiming. Right? … The empire longbow is my best evidence that the community who likes to pretend they have some godly authority and knowledge upon this game is very often worse than Fat Shark. It’s been a year since the Grail Knight/BBB update and Huntsbow is only ever seen in legend with a build for body shotting SV and specials. You ruined something good.
If a horde is something but a temp health delivery you’re not playing right builds\right comps or you’re not playing on the right difficulty.
If you badly need flamers or shotguns to clear hordes - go to lower difficulty or gitgud. Becouse horde killing is the most ez and the most basic thing in the game.
- blunderbuss is not even close too “sudden removal of all trash infantry”. It is more like “kill this 4-5 mobs if they are in a perfect blob”
- Sudden removal of Blightstormer, ratling or packmaster is useful too.
Even on cata hordes = free THP and nothing else if you have some skill and ± good weapon. (not a crowbill or 1h axe)
Only reason to use shotguns is green circles hunting and thats all. Or you just badly hate plague monks
Or if you play Onslaught with tons of berserkers.
And yes - Griffon foot and Grudgeraker are not meta too. They are just kinda okay and fun.
And they are far far far better then BB.
Shotguns should be more balanced and more all rounded. Right now melee weapons can do the same job and get rewarded for that with THP. But melee weapons cant kill some specials becouse of range. Thats why ranged special killing weapons are so popular.
For example 1h axe or Hammer+shiled\mace+shield was garbage tier weapons for same reason - they was too niche.
This is not a “gitgud” discussion. Sure: A naked horde should be zero problem for any competent player. As is true for any singular threath in this game. A special or three? Easy. Handful of Elites or even Berserkers? Nothing but a speedbump if you know which end of your weapon to use. Lone monster? Should literally not take a single hitpoint out of a team. But when stuff gets combined with each other and a hundred fanatics barring your way, maybe in combination with unfavorable terrain, that’s when things get nasty. And making a bit of space by deleting all infantry is super useful, and can turn a situation where you are under pressure into an easily manageble one. I never claimed shotguns and flamers were needed to deal with hordes. There’s usually plenty of strategies to deal with any situation in the game, after all. But you are the one that claimed there is no use for shotguns and flamers and such, and that is what I was commenting on.
Also: Massed infantry is never a problem in this game, and that’s why everybody loves fighting Beastmen so much. And what I also don’t get about your hypothetical situation where the horde sound is nothing but a THP-dinnerbell anymore: What the hell did you lose those hitpoints to in the first place then? A bunch of Elites? A lone Monster? Got nabbed by a hookrat that leeroy-jenkinsed across an rmpty field?! I bet you 100 shillings when you got hit was a situation that involved a bunch of infantry somehow. And if there had only been some drunken murderhobo pre-emptively going all second amendment on all the fanatics and slaverats with a few pounds of high-kinetic scrapmetal, that situation would not have gotten out of hand so much.
4 Likes
And in my opinion EVERY horde should be like the beastman horde. Thats how you get niche weapons viable.
Yes. And deleting actual threat like specials is far more useful. Thats why players are using their ults to kill specials.
- FF from teammates who want to kill this lone slaverat with grudgeraker or hagbane\monfire. Or he is “helping” into your arse when you are dealing with horde.
- Ratlings\globes\archers
- Every human does mistakes.
- “Take damage from horde” doesnt mean “cant deal with horde.”
And what? Hookrat is still alive and you cant kill all mobs with 1 button
But guess what - he can use good weapon and kill that hookrat.
With your logic 1h Axe or crowbill is a very good weapon becouse i can imagine 1 situation when it is not crap.
low range,
slow reload,
limited ammo,
weak against armor and monsters,
but you can kill 3 skaven slaves at the same time, not just 1! 6, if you ask them to stack up nicely.
I can take the handgun, and have similar reload/ammo weakness, but fantastic range and great against everything. Or I can take the repeater, with great ammo, 8 round clips, great range (it’s flat out to the horizon, from what I can tell), and 2-3 shots against anything that matters 'cept chaos warriors.
Yes, I have to kill hordes with my melee weapon…which is what Kruber’s actually great at.
1 Like
But dude it can kill like 3 plague monks in one shot. This means a lot if you forget all the ults and other mechanics that are able to do that now, without being bad at other things or not actually a ranged weapon.
Fair I misread that.
Who does ‘you’ refer to here? The entire community? I know I didn’t do that. I even voiced my displeasure at the zoom change when it was announced and was hoping they would switch it back or add a menu setting to switch back, or at least add a zoom toggle option I could use immediately.
2 Likes
Maybe the ‘you’ is too literal but just like back then we had people defending the broken horrible zoom saying it was better for that one role. And everyone who wanted zoom or just not hip fire spread was just bad and using it wrong, sort of like in this thread where shotguns are apparently great weapons if your team builds around you and everyone else is just doing it wrong they have no shortcomings that need ti ever be accounted for by other players ever.
Yep, that’s exactly what the stance of the majority of people in this thread was. Very good reading comprehension you got there. And such a feel for nuance as well.
2 Likes
IMO the grdge-raker does every job the blunderbuss does, but better, and it does jobs the blunderbuss can’t do at all. And it’s available on a very reliable ammo sustain career.
I don’t know how to reconcile that with both weapons being in a good spot.
Am I crazy? Or are the people defending the BB also of the mind that the GR is OP?
1 Like
Yes actually, have you actually thought of a response to people pointing out better alternatives besides just blaming Fat Shark for adding weapons in the same role that aren’t as limited? Feel free to correct the record here. It’s also pretty glib to sit on the victim horse like your camp wasn’t constantly just claiming ‘you know not what shotguns do and are wrong/bad’ constantly. Oh now its so bad to be treated sarcastically in response after that. My God, someone really needed to break up the monotonous feel good hive mind of no discussion here. We all know what shotguns do, Blunder is by far the worst and it isn’t because weapons that aren’t even top class were added to other kits. Seriously.
Very well.
I did not blame FS for anything, and I never really discussed other weapons, so, okay? I also never really argued shotguns in general and the blunderbuss in particular couldn’t use a buff. (Personally I think it should be able to reliably blast Packmasters and Ratlings / Flamers in about 2x melee range at least.) But all I really did in this thread so far was pointing out that shotguns and weapons fulfilling a similar role had at least some redeeming characteristics in reply to your “point” of shotgun users should be kicked automatically for being not useful ever.
“Victim horse”? That’s a new one… And again with the ridiculous hyperbolic twisting of what was actually said, geez. And what the hell is my “camp” here in this discussion?! You seem to have some delusion where everybody here who does not agree with you is agreeing 100% with each other and unanimously argueing against you personally that shotguns are top tier in the meta or something, which is hardly what’s going on here.
You really seem to have a lively imagination there, where you are already imagining I’m angry about your “sarcasm” before I replied, but okay. And what the hell are you reading here that gives you the impression of a “monotonous feel good hive mind of no discussion”?!
Mate, strawmanning everybody who does not agree 100% with your hyperbolic positions and then going off based on how you think they are reacting might be a winning strategy in discussions against imaginary opponents while you’re under the shower, but when you write it all out on a forum it just makes you look silly.
4 Likes