Is Fatshark company culture the issue?

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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So it seems like Fatshark isn’t taking player concerns very seriously. They’ve made some minor concessions in regards to the cash shop, but haven’t committed to anything, using lots of wishy washy language, and saying that a lot of QoL improvements don’t mesh with their vision of the game and/or the lore.

The thing that really got me thinking was Hedge’s response to the guy that asked for weapon customization. He condescendingly responded that Darktide wasn’t CoD and wasn’t designed to be CoD. In a vacuum, it seems like Hedge just putting his foot in his mouth again, but Call of Duty is one of the most successful video game franchises of all time. I know that a lot of people like to dump on CoD (I get it, I’m not a fan either), but weapon customization is pretty standard in a lot of video games these days. And you’d think being as successful as CoD would be something a developer would want.

Between Hedge’s comment and the PC Gamer article where Fatshark dropping the “why are gamers mad, don’t they know we know what’s best for them?” type comments, it got me wondering… does Fatshark have a culture problem? It seems like they may have been sitting around huffing their own farts and getting high on the success of the Vermintide games.

If they’ve gotten to the point that they think they’re above criticism, the players “don’t know what’s best for them”, and that everything they release is gold, it’s a bad, bad sign. The fact that they scrapped all of the QoL features that took the Vermintide games from good to great is concerning.

Fatshark wouldn’t be the first developer to make a couple of bangers and then get a big head, only to crumble under the weight of their own ego. It definitely seems like their treading down this path and it has me genuinely concerned, because they clearly have the ability to make some real gems. I don’t want to see them fail. I want more Darktide! I want to fight orks, genestealer cults, whatever they come up with!

Am I looking to deeply into this? I dunno. I hope Fatshark comes to their senses. I’m not suggesting they listen to every wild comment that comea across the table, but when a large portion of their playerbase is saying “hey, this is bad” maybe they need to start listening and engaging instead of the pat on the head and “we hear you, but…” we’re currently getting.

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size of opinion group does not reflect validity of the opinion.
its only require more attention from the devs and i mean very careful sort of attention.
we can’t know whether they pay that attention because of poor comunication wich is understeandable to me when i see at launch of the game.
they literaly relising core features by parts. i think devs are in production hell.

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I legitimately don’t have a problem with coherency. It’s a nice buff to promote team play, it lets you know when you’re not benefiting from auras, and it ties in with the tabletop (unit cohesion is a thing in Big 40k). It could be better, but I don’t think it’s BAD per se.

Developers ignoring their players, especially in a patronizing manner, is absolutely bad though.

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If this was their first rodeo i would probably just brush it off as being inexperienced and finding their way.

But this is basically just Corporate Speak 2, Electric “we already did this with VT2” Bogaloo.

Thats whats really frustrating to me at least, having dealt with all the crap that came from following the VT2 development cycle.
Watching them almost kill their own game a few times, see them improve on how they designed their game and how they made VT2 into a great game and got the community on their side again despite their many questionable business moves.

And then watch as they throw it all out the window when it comes to this game, all that experience from VT2, what worked and did not work, what players wanted and enjoyed? Gone and forgotten. Two steps back, no step forward.

Lets add gacha mechanics, clunky combat mechanics, excessive RNG and time gating instead, also, lets have less character arc types and less classes while making vague statements about if we are gonna sell the new classes straight from the get go, the players will L O V E it, and add mtx, gotta keep milking those players somehow. Its the tip of the iceberg.

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have to agree with you on coherency, in the other tide games staying together is the only way to win at higher difficulties. Its always painful to get that one dude who thinks he gonna speedrun the whole thing without their team.

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They are owned by Tencent who probably forced them to adopt a short term profit structure and focus on microtransactions before game quality. But I don’t feel sorry for Fatshark, nobody forces them to sell themselves to the chinese, they just did that coz they got offered a lot of money for it.

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I agree with most of what has been said in this thread.

They made their bed, wanted a big wad of cash one last time and its probably the end of em after this.

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This happened to them back in V2 times. I remember it because I read the comment - anyone else can call it hearsay -, one dev literally said in the forum that they don’t give us what we want, but what we need. Everyone just wanted them to fix Deeds. Then they went and released WoM.

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According to Hedge, Tencent is very hands off and this is all Fatshark.

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Like I’ve already stated: They are huffing their own farts, and if you complain about the smell, they will say it was you.

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I don’t think it’s a Fatshark issue but more widespread issue.
I sense a bit of ego in general when it comes to creative positions.

Remember when Elden Ring came out and people praised it’s lack of hand-holding but still gave relevant info? Lots of twitter posts from devs talking about how bad everything was because they would design a more informative UI. Players want something, developers want to flaunt their skills.

You have the Witcher series where writers make jokes and talks down how bad the source material is in the writers room.

You have RoP who thought they improved Tolkien etc etc

Just speaking from my own experience when I did some level design. It’s very easy to get trapped in your own cleverness. I get the same feeling when I think of the design in Darktide as I did when I made levels. It’s clever and I can see the thought process behind it, but you become blind in wanting to achieve this cool thing you have in mind and you fail to see how others will experience it.
I made clever and cool solutions to maps, but for someone who is not in my head and my thinking might not see the solution and meaning as easily. Then it becomes a tad difficult to “dumb” things down (bad wording, but accurate) because my vision isn’t the same, but it will become a better experience overall. It’s why a common tenant is “Leave your ego at the door” when it comes to design.

The rotational Shop is a great example. I’m sure the thought process was “People will play a game or 2 , maybe get some loot then check back to the shop and see if there’s something new. If there is and they don’t have ordocks for it we have it up for a while so they can get some ordocks for it”
Which makes sense and sounds great in theory. Problem arised when people are just swimming in Ordocks and games give no loot and we have no reason to play games for progression, so it became shop camping.

Couple this with some ego that you think you have this great reasoning and the feedback you get is “THis is garbage” then it’s easy to dismiss that with “But they haven’t thought about this or that” which you’ve spent a long time thinking of.

I feel like this attitude have become WAY more prevalent lately when it comes to entertainment. I’m all for developers having visions and I do believe developers should be able to create the game they want first and foremost, but the good developers manage to get feedback and make solutions that are still in-line with their vision or they make a compromise that might work. Which is why sometimes players solutions aren’t the best because they also have some of this ego that they think something is bad and they think this is good thus it should be what they think is good. But it won’t be good for everyone etc etc…

Been rambling on for too long now though.

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You’re correct, but it definitely IS a Fatshark issue. It’s just not exclusively a Fatshark issue. I think they’ve fallen prey to exactly what you’re describing and they’re too far up their own butts to see the error of their ways.

The core mechanics of the game are great. I WANT to play Darktide. The problem is that when I play Darktide and am forced to interact with all of the other systems they’ve tacked on… it makes me not want to play Darktide.

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I think a great many devs at various companies hold low opinions of their audience. It’s not at all rare. Most of the time, though, there is someone there to massage communications so that never comes true.

In any case, I don’t really care how they phrase things. Polite or not, it doesn’t matter. What matters is what they do. We have a track record from Vermintide for reference. And we’ll see how some of the more serious issues get handled in game, not on social media.

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Now imagine relying on other players being near you to regenerate THP.

Coherency is awful because it is tied to toughness. Specials and all the other stuff inventivizes sticking together already.

They already had auras in VT2 and couldve left it at that, but now we have this clunky unfun mechanic where our characters are gimped if theyre not huddled together.

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That’s literally worse.

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We’re off to a bad start then because the toughness change was an absolute joke that broke their game and it was against majority player feedback.

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It sure is!

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Yeah, I shouldn’t have said “it isn’t a fatshark issue” when I included Fatshark in the “widespread” part… You are right, there certainly is an Fatshark issue.

To add to that, I think the bomber is another example of it. That specialist is programmed well when it comes to how he works and tactics he deploys, problem is him acting cleverly seems to be more important than him being designed fun.

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I have mixed feelings about some of the specials. I like most of them. The bomber is fun!

What’s not fun is multiple bombers plastering an area in fire. While also getting dogpiled by trappers and mutants and hounds appearing from doors directly behind you and insantly snagging you. :sweat_smile:

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If these enemies died or alerted you to their presence consistently it wouldn’t be as remotely as annoying. Pox Bursters not causing horde damage when they explode is another massive negative against them. Most of the specials just feel too spongey given their power.

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