Yea I mean I’m not gonna argue about it. I just don’t believe you. Post a game of yo doing auric with zero ranged weapon use and we can talk more
I’ve occasionally made the point that I think this IS something that’s being attempted inside Fat Shark. There are a lot of things in the game that feel like they are intended to create a less tactical more heated, close range game. That they are trying to force it into a mould they have in mind which is basically Verm goes to space.
- A ton of axes and other not-w40k-super-melee weapons, + w40k Melee over weak to keep plain viable.
- Enemy only doors we can’t barricade/lock
- Spawn behind you almost no matter what (including totally impossible ones, not just weird origins)
- Massive (less now but still) speed bumps to weapons coming out, so it’s hard to go between or back to ranged.
- Many ranged making you slow to move to extreme degree. (Note a ton of the meta ranged are the ones without or with the least of these problems.)
Were others as well.
That said, good players can work out ways around these limits, but even so. I think Darktide needs to be it’s own thing, but I really do feel like there’s a mental block somewhere on the team trying to ‘retain the v2 experience’
Or lock the doors that only the enemy can use…
To the Empires of Old! 
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TBH I do this on a Vet with a powersword (PC4) though it’s a lot harder. I have a whole approach.
Move behind cover to ensure full stamina, (doesn’t need to be perfect,) charge sword, sprint, dive, hit VOICE to knock’em down, (which also corrects any toughness loss on the way in,) cut the whole bunch in two before they get up.
Karl would approve of this 
Sniper got a much needed bug fix which actually nerfed them a lot in game. I don’t even remember when exactly they changed it but Snipers used to queue their shot on a player and if they didn’t fire because you went into cover they’d just bank that charge and fire it into the next target with zero warning, like it would play regular bullet SFX. After that was fixed I stopped seeing experienced players eat random sniper shots.
There’s also gold toughness that lets ogryn, zealot and veteran routinely survive a sniper shot for 0 HP taken with their DMGR builds they’re probably running with like 150-200 toughness.
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Currently uploading a few videos. They were difficult to get, but not because of zealot.
The servers are sh*t today, and my game crashed a ton but I got some clean matches albeit boring ones (I can upload the “dirty” ones but there’s no scoreboard to show my efforts because of the crashes). Auric of course, and top scoring as promised with not a single use of my bolter. One “vs” inexperienced teammates, and one with a 676 ish ogryn using a gunlugger kickback build.
I’ll also upload a clip where I take on an entire room of gunners in a duo match. I’ll be very snarky, and obnoxious in it so that should be fun for you.
The other 2 matches won’t have my dumb voice since I need to render them in an editing software or it doesn’t show up by default for some reason.
This spot on the thread is just reserved so I’ll edit in the links once its uploaded however long that may take.
EDIT:
I also wish to point out I’m a level 83 zealot. I barely play this class (it shows with my bad weapon combos), but it really doesn’t seem to matter.
I will also post other zealots who aren’t bad at the game after my own videos are uploaded to further drive home the point that zealot is the most independent class who don’t need no ranged weapon * z snap *
The shortest one. So it’s obviously done fastest.
^ This is in response to:
Because interpreting my previous post that I’m ignoring the ranged units is bad faith.
The context was I can just shoot the melee why doesn’t the logic follow that I can just melee ranged?
^ Laggy servers. Kept on getting double uses of FotF for some reason.
Unfortunately might as well have been a regular damnation, but still.
The ones where I crashed were much more exciting but as I said no scoreboard means you can’t see that I did well numerically. I have the gunlugger ogryn one being uploaded, and I’ll come back to check on that later.
^ Laggy servers. My god damn push stabs weren’t going through half the time. You can actually visibly see the lag sometimes like a mutant “swimming” through the ground at one point, and constant clipping through enemies.
OH LOOK some stuff right here on these very forums
You can scroll down, and see several zealots true solo melee only on Damnation.
Melee only can be done this is now proven yet to see ranged only.
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IF Karl remembered to always make sure he’s moving fast enough to make a dodge work and not be a crouch, he’d still be … “Hats off boys. For Karl.” 
Seriously, that IS a thing, and it would help if vet was sped up just a little, since the reflexes on Zealot don’t transfer as well as I’d like.
Additional, the game feels much, much more melee focus then at launch.
I think the AI had been nerfed hard, and they usually stand there looking stupid with their guns out while you get into melee range and then they tranfer or take a moment to think abotu what they need to do, and by the time that’s over all the ranged are dead and the horde has arrived and everyone is so budy with poxers they forget until the end that was kinda/sorta suppose to be a ranged fight.
Feels like the enemy AI could use a small buff, or un-nerf, so they act slightly more intelligently.
Heck, the truth is the first time we get onto the map and fire off a gun or throw a grenade the whole map up to and maybe past the first lock ought to know something is up and be waiting, ready, but every 50 yards they are surprised again. Rifle reports carry quite a long way. 500 yards sounds like someone is setting off some really weird bubble wrap, but from so far away it’s gotta be something special.
Plus, on a fair number of difficulties, even the higher ones, the enemy melee stands there for quite a while with a weapon in the air to look mean but really just waiting for you to hit them…
…like the swarm of evil ninjas do in the old movies so the ninja in the white pajamas can wack’em and look cool.
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There are too many ranged enemies in Darktide to make using melee all the time to be worthwhile.
V2 is a melee-focused game because of the fact the majority of enemies use melee. Darktide is different.
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I do agree that it really does NOT feel like we are fighting a Traitoris Militarum regiment. In addition to your points: I think that Scab Shooters could definitely use something of a SPRINTING bayonet charge for when a nearby player depletes their current magazine.
Edit:
My reasonings?
- It would be a breath of fresh air.
- It would be VERY cool to see.
- It would force players to be quicker on their feet and in their thinking.
I am amicable to discussing other changes to them too!
That insta pre-shot was the only problem.
As far as I understand, they reduced toughness damage multiplier for sniper and burster, it’s not just overtoughness mechanic.
Sniper laser sight is also lumber thick now, it was less visible before.
First - efficiency means how fast you clear things and how much your team will spend resources (hp aswell).
You will never see only melee 4 people team in randoms, cause it’s not an efficient way to play. Or even if you will it’s gonna be 4 knives zealots. You can say you will never see full range team aswell.
But - In your average pub game the total range damage dealt is overall much higher than total melee damage dealt while (and because) it’s easier to perform.
The fact you can clear run in melee with very specific builds like knives zealot or melee ogryn with rocks doesn’t change the thing range is overtuned in DT, and by overtuned i mean it takes less effort but grants high result.
Second - i’m not saying that melee is hard or complex, it’s the opposite what i said. But in comparison with melee range is even less complex or hard. Aswell as i said for several times, that melee has its problems - spaming slide and locking blob of shotgunners in melee is dumb.
So i’m not clearly understand what point are you trying to prove. Melee in DT is way less complex than in V2 and barely needs any deccision making. But range even more simple, because range as a game mechanic that is simple in its core - aim, track, recoil control, it’s all only reaction based and muscle memmory, there is no though process involved, while melee (if good) can have both aspects.
How is a single zealot taking aggro of an entire room of gunners inefficient?
Not like I took damage either until I ignored the pox burster anyways.
I also used zero resources meaning whatever theoretical teammates I have will have full access to anything they need because I can use close to nothing even when I’m not holding back on using my bolter.
Either way I probably took that comment a bit out of context myself, and you were mostly caught in the crossfire with Bigpfeiffer making such an ignorant comment.
We’re on the same page here. Honestly, kind of the point I was making with my comments about being a low level zealot with poor experience.
I think ranged takes more skill from my pov despite what you say. I can always pick up zealot no problem, but if I’m sleep deprived I can really feel it on my veteran even with easy weapons like MK V.
Because in comparison with rubmler spaming ogryn it takes more buttons to push in the end
Killing nurgle beast with krak or bolter is faster rather than trying to catch it in melee trying to avoid slowing goo or tale hit
Spaming plasma or krak nades vs crushers in mixed horde is faster and takes less risk than trying to thammer them or shredding with evi
Sure there are some aspects where melee is a better tool (like bonking demonhost), but on average it works mostly to decrease “damage taken” parameter on scoreboard
Wellp, as i see it - range is only about muscle memory - aim, tracking, recoil control. While melee (well designed) has both muscle memory and decision making.
In DT there is even bullet magnetism (cringe), like it’s almost impossible to miss when you shoot sniper with plasma.
From what i’ve seen - new players don’t struggle with shooting in DT, but in melee. And FPS is a mainsteam genre, unlike melee games like chivalry or mordhau for example. So most people will tend to use guns and ask for guns to be dominant.
But i don’t rly want ot argue what is harder - melee or range. I just don’t feel that DT is a hybrid game, where you need to master every aspect to be good. More like you can choose to almost avoid one.
That’s a hell of a reach, brother.
Not a pack of gunners which was the crux of the matter, or so I thought (I thought those goalposts were closer… weird), but a nurgle? Sure yeah, but the other 2 bosses are nice and easy to deal with in melee.
But yeah bolter is my ranged weapon on zealot because I like to dispatch them quickly.
Resources. I don’t consider effort as part of efficiency. It’s kind of a faux argument honestly. We’re hardly marathon runners. Or at least I’m not despite being in pretty good shape.
Levels of precision matter.
In melee have a lingering hitbox that takes up a very large portion of your screen. It’s very hard to miss in melee even in VT2 a game I’m also experienced with.
There’s a reason people spend hundreds of hours in things like Aim Trainer, or Kovaacs. It’s almost like there’s endless depth to this simple thing.
The skill floor upon which they live or die is melee this is true.
Doesn’t change the fact that I’ve had people lose to me massively while I was using a Las pistol while they had been using plasma, or the more rarely seen (for some reason) MK V.
At a certain point mechanical failures become much more likely with ranged is my point. You can talk about ranged being forgiving in this game which it is, but melee is more so in terms of accuracy if nothing else.
Defo cringe. Don’t need that on my revolver. I don’t want training wheels.
Not inaccurate, but the games priorities change over time.
I don’t want VT in space. I like my guns. I very much enjoy shooting things I just don’t want the larger raycasts (there’s no bullet magnetism, but that’s semantics really).
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Very impressive! It’s nice to see a fellow zealot also never block and just be a dodge king😎
I do all that using a controller! I’m crazy lol
Yea good job man. I stand corrected; you can play without using ranged. However, I do think it’s a tiny bit misleading since
- You are really really good a melee. Not sure if that’s fair to extrapolate your experience to “normal” people
- I think there was a couple situations where using ranged would have been easier or resulted in less damage taken.
But in general, yea you killed it. Good job
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Dodge king gang. Although if I DO end up blocking it’s because I’m using a push attack to reset my Heavy Eviscerator’s attack pattern.
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Uh… me?
I thin you meant to reply to @Tempest_yo .
But since you DID reply to me…
I found blocking was large bad against a horde in V. It was my main way to die, since they didn’t attack all at once and I’d get stuck in a block. Now I only tend to block very occasionally and use distance to keep myself safe. It’s also easier to see specials coming. Getting yanked into a horde by a hook rat or a trapper is a good way to lose a match.
IRL melee wars were fought mostly shoulder to shoulder, and the result was no man had to deal with more then two or three since you couldn’t get more people then that into the space, and you dealt with them one at a time since melee cleave isn’t real. (Might be some very rare exceptions, but very rare.)
But cleave is FUN, so it works really well in a game like this.
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Yea sorry something with me being an idiot, using my phone, and these forums has me do things I don’t mean to do🤪
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Yup same here! Blocking is more trouble than what’s it’s worth, especially with dodge reset timer being so small.
I tried doing the devil claw special (basically a super block with damage mechanic wise) and I ended up eating steel more because of it lol
Found it much easier to just dodge all their attacks and aim for the head🤷♂️
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I have the same take.
Blocking VS Dodging will always be a HUGE debate in anything related to combat, it’s just a more broad version of the classic Knight VS Samurai debate.
The Knight can only block the Samurai’s attacks so many times before the Knight becomes vulnerable, thus the Samurai can only dodge the Knight’s attacks so many times before the Samurai becomes vulnerable and so on and so forth.