im seeing what feels like a growing trend of really poor play out there. psykers that would rather be downed than put away the purg staf, oggies that wont let go of the heavy stubba for anything.
you can be more melee or ranged focus as a player and thats fine, but when you get downed and throw the run just because you wont put the ranged away when its absolutely called for there must be something wrong?
it feels liek day one when a horde came we all took out our various sticks , axes and the occasional sword stood together mowed em down while moving forward. now it feels like every pox walker has to be dealt with by full auto and nothing less, no matter how many team mates we train or how far back we run.
is melee too dangerous? is it a fun issue? what is going on?
Since more newcomers come into this believing it to be a shooter, they donât bother learning how to melee. Psykers and Veterans are the worst in that regard, with some players treating melee as a âdesperation optionâ, rather than an integral part of gameplay that it is.
well if it was an old issue id go with it , but its relatively new, sure first few days peopel shot pox bursters then we learned and everyone started pushing them. were now regressing , you would never see an oggie refuse to melee untill they got they got the heavy-heavy stubba variant
and its getting worse
Basically this. Also one of the underlying reasons behind the nerf outrage coming from all power sword veterans and flamer Preachers âmainsâ. Players were allowed to ignore some of the core gameplay mechanics and Fatshark isnât helping here with poorly balanced weapons and classes.
My take is that it is a combination of there being too much ammo, and the lower difficulty levels reinforcing bad habits. Until you get onto HI damnation there isnât really any reason not to shoot everything, because youâre not going to run out of ammo anyway (unless you got four guns and no vet).
Unpopular opinion, but itâs in part because there is no friendly fire. If there was friendly fire, indiscriminately firing into your teammates to shoot the horde through them wouldnât be a thing. Players would be more compelled to participate by also drawing their melee more often.
Melee is by far not too dangerous or something. Overall melee enemies are less of a threat than they´ve been in V2 due to fixes, being slower or while getting staggered by everything.
It´s just 3 issues coming togetherâŚ
Players jump into this game and still believe it´s a loot-shooter and that´s how the most play it. Vet is so popular for a reason and the multiple complaints about the flamethrower-nerf pretty much show what´s wrong with the game and the expectations since hey⌠besides 1 feat Zealot is completely trimmed on melee-combat.
A lot of poeple don´t even try to engage with the melee-combat and basic-mechanics. And here again the PS complaints shows exactly that. Either the waveclear have to be something like â3 swings and all is deadâ or so powerful with heavy stagger that it´s impossible that the melee enemies will be able to attack you.
Range-weapons are too strong and we´ve way too much ammunition. This is a serious issue across the board. When you´re able to clear 90% of the whole map just with range-weapons, then something is wrong i guess. (Atleast looking at the game from the tide-series perspective.)
Rangeweapons have to be put in better niches like a Bolter that is ofc good against armored targets, but it shouldn´t clear a whole horde aswell. And yeah, less ammo-packs and reserves in general would be welcome on any range-weapons.
They should be there to deal with range-enemies in the first case, not to take out ANY threat before it´ll reach you or staggering it until next day.
Especially low-difficulty missions could need some damage-lock. It´s indeed just ârunning around with rangeâ to kill pretty much everything. So ofc newcomers will never get used to melee-combat and then suddenly fail hard on some heresy / damnation high int maps.
Weeklies⌠i mean, i see myself jumping on my Zealot with an autogun and pretty much never using melee, just to get âkill 750 enemies on rangedâ done.
Just another reason why weeklies shouldn´t be a thing and that we should get coins out of missions, beating events, carrying grimoires etcâŚ
Weeklies don´t force any good out of the players and even if i still do my job killing stuff, it just feels cheap to play that way.
TLDR: Too many newcomers that believe it´s a loot-shooter, while the game doesn´t even force to get used to melee-combat since range-weapons are too strong, the difficulty-scaling is not in place and weeklies wants you to play the game in a way it shouldn´t be played.
If anything the game has huge balance-issues and don´t know what it actually want.
Apart from the ogryns never pulling the melee weapon out when running stubber, this thing isnât really a new one. Most visible is the Surge psykers never pulling melee weapons or going for BB ever. Other similar stuff is Vetâs and Zealotâs not using grenades only in desperation or Psykers totally forgetting they can BB.
I have to note that there is also the other variation when Zealot just charges everything in melee not even caring about having a ranged weapon, or only using it for hordes (Flamey shotgun).
I think this topic could be separated into two things.
Ranged and melee parings where the ranged weapon is the generalist and the melee weapon is the specialist (Purge + Deimos, Vet with Braced autogun + chain axe)
Players who donât use the right tool for the right situation.
Some classes do give either enough survivability and general power to get away with this (Ogryn on Stubber) while other weapons are so easy to use, they will produce enough value to help the team even in the hands of a âbadâ player (Surge staff).
Realistically with the current weapon selection, there is actually a number of weapons that can be run as a general option that allows going for a more âmelee lightâ approach (autogun/pistol, laspistol, purge staff, stubber).
I see no problem with running ranged heavy on psyker or vet, but the fact that the game is easy enough that you donât have to learn optimal play at all gives a bit more weight for a difficulty 6 being very much needed, although I have to say probably even that wouldnât be able to fix Surge staff.
Apart from a new more punishing difficulty, I donât know how players could be forced into using their abilities more. Stuff like PS did teach you about pacing, dodges, and melee positioning a lot even with the pre-nerf killing power. Is it core you have to kill horde, or elites with melee? I donât think so.
The only problem melee has imho, is that stamina regeneration as a whole is pretty darn f***ed. Hence there is very little reason to be blocking in this game. You either are able to keep attacking or dodge out of range and reposition. Thatâs about it in terms of problems with melee the way I see it.
Still⌠I donât think this is the reason for people refusing to melee. That probably stems from inexperience with Tide games coupled with a lot of experience playing shooters.
While I really enjoy melee in this game in a 40k game ordinary human beings would be well advised trying to dispatch the horrors of chaos in a distance as long as they are able to. This is already very melee focused for the setting. While the empire in wh fantasy is very competent in melee for Astra militarum units it usually means defeat if the enemy actually can push through the fire and engage in melee. Donât get me wrong - Iâm not saying ranged should be buffed and I agree that the refusal to melee described by OP is just stupid gameplay wise.
But I definitely disagree that ranged is too strong. If this was Vermintide 3 I wouldnât be playing. Warhammer fantasy never had much appeal for me outside of itâs total war iterations.
This isnât vermintide, youâre supposed to use your gun a lot. Depending on what the party is bringing and how they use it they may or may not run out of ammo. Its not a problem in my view if players are able to defeat melee threats with guns. The only problem is if a player who brought a melee weapon and wants to use it never gets to.
No itâs not. The setting matters. Vermintide is high fantasy stuff thatâs all about swords and bows. 40k is sci fi thatâs all about firepower, chain- and power weapons. And four player PVE was invented long before Vermintide. So this is as much V2 in space as V2 was L4D with swords. And so your statement has as much value as claiming DT is literally L4D in space - kinda true but completely irrelevant for the discussionâŚ
Not with ordinary humans - send Astra Militarum into melee and lose your games But that in universe in total melee is important I acknowledged by mentioning chain- and powerweapons.
And btw in comparison in V2 ranged is completely negligible.
No itâs not. Only Vermintide fans coming over to DT think of it this way. And before DT they only spoke about Vermintide - not the whole rich genre of tide games.
Only because the Devs stick to what they know (first person 4 player coop action) and like certain naming conventions to sign their work that doesnât make it part of a series.
In this forum many seem to want DT to play more like V2 and thus fail to understand that the different setting calls for a different game in many aspects.
I remember the devs said VT2 was 75/25 melee/ranged and they aimed for Darktide to be 50/50. I think itâs closer to 30/70 or 35/65 currently, but I generally agree Darktide should be more ranged than Vermintide. Itâs maybe just a LITTLE too much currently.
Yeah I wish mobility stamina and combat stamina will get seperated at a point. It really hurts the abundance of weapons they put great push attacks on.
