First, due to this topic, I want to ask everyone to be calm and civil. Thank you!
My question is about the way of asking people during a mission to play differently than they are playing. It is not about playstyle, but about playing badly. Just a few examples of player errors I have seen:
taking ammo from someone else that needs it more
using the ammo crate or medicae pack when they are the only one that needs it
not picking up any items that are tagged (grenades, medpacks, ammo)
These were errors, but now comes a short rant (?) about a fundamental error. The zealot will be my example. Sadly I think that around 50% or more of the zealots play the class wrong. It is a meelee class but they are afraid to engage in meelee. They donât know when to charge and how. Most of the zealots I see canât even deal with 2-3 random shooty boys without using their gun. The even worse case is that they cower behind cover until the ranged enemies are killed by others. Not realising, that with covering fire and them pulling the shooty boys into meelee, a multi minute encounter turns into a 10-20 second fight.
When I ask these people to engage in meelee, I mostly get angry answers and get told to mind my own business (in a coop game). I donât talk down to them I donât insult them, and itâs not only the zealots but every class when I ask them to play the way their class is meant to.
I should tell you this is damnation, where people are supposedly more chill and better players. I am only asking for help because I have only met 3-4 okay/good players since 2 weeks before the garbs and penances update. Everyone else was terrible and basically I have to carry every game I am in. And I play several hours daily so it is becoming tiresome.
After all this, what would you say to someone who plays badly? Not to insult them but to genuinely ask them to play differently for everyoneâs sake.
One of the fundamental rules of the Internet states:
âYou wont be able to make people see your side of the table.â
You see them playing poorly. All they might see is a situation they cant handle, and a jackass that tells them they f*cked up.
If you criticize someones gameplay, they will call you names, rage, or, in the best case, ignore you.
Just donât do it.
They either learn on their own, watch/read a guide, or ask questions. If you try to shove something down their throat, however gently, they will push back.
If you get annoyed by random people being random, add the ones that are nice/good, or make you feel comfortable to be around and play with them. It is relatively easy to find like minded people in tide games.
carry them and donât talk to them or do anything, they arenât going to change.
if you canât get to the ammo first, if you canât carry them, if you canât play around them and completely dominate the entire game no matter what class you are playing or what difficulty then you are not good enough to be playing that class or difficulty.
You are the only person you can change.
if you canât carry someone whoâs bad, then you are not discernably different from them or you are attempting tier 5 with randoms and you are going to lose some of these attempts but not all of them if you are actually good enough to carry.
Gotta play the long game.
Introduce them to the idea that there are better ways to play at the GG screen then leave without further comment.
Theyâll immediately be defensive but now the seed is planted and they might try to learn. Or just make youtube videos. Personally iâve been thinking about a video on movement and flanking techniques. But its fairly esoteric and hard to explain something i do by instinct and feel more than planning.
I am genuinely thinking about a channel where I collect excellent and moronic DT plays with a little explanation why a move was good or bad. Easier to show small aspects than explain a 3 minute dance as a zealot against 20-30 shooters 6 crushers and a poxburster conga line.
I would recommend not to try and change them, but if youâll do it, you wouldnât differe from toxic players no matter how polite you are, because saying that you are playing wrong the class you poured hours in is simply rude no matter how you twist the words.
People will change, not immediately, but with time. Also, if you are playing much better then them and not being cocky about it, they might look how you play and learn, thatâs rare of course.
Recently I saw a dude that was full autoing lone melee enemies, no matter the numbers, I didnât say anything and still he adapted his gameplay to better suit the situation, well that happened when he was out of ammo for some time.
In conclusion, people will change, you just gotta leave them to themselves, unless they are irritated by things that happened throughout their day or by people saying to get good.
Approaching them or this topic as âbad playersâ is sort of an invalid way to perceive the issue.
The reality is that you canât make them a better player and you will never be able to. You are not the person to teach them how to improve. They have to discover these things on their own, when they want to discover them.
I also dislike being lectured and taught how to play the game and any other game for that matter. Itâs just how we are. Most of my desire to experiment and research comes from misunderstanding things and gaining better insight on my own.
And most players just want to play the game; not spend dozens of hours trying builds and weapons in the Meat Grinder like I haveâI donât blame them because I wish I could pick up and play the game.
If they want to improve, theyâll ask here or on Reddit or elsewhere. Tweet-sized posts inside missions are hardly a way to provide improvement.
I agree with the sentiment of the two previous posts. Also the quote below is a large warning sign. I donât think any constructive conversation can take place if you already have a âcorrectâ way to play in mind.
Carrot and stick: you can start by nicely pointing out heir mistake after the 3rd-5th consecutive anti-team incident. If they freak out and turn it up to 11 feel free to bring out the stick. The VT2 community was far more open to constructive criticism, DT seems to have poached some of the worst players from other games.
Some are just toxic perpetual anti-team offenders and just deserve a vote-kick when theyâre hindering the team so badly that they single-handedly and dramatically increase the odds of a wipe on the higher diffs and conditions.
Sadly, most DT players seem triggered by genuinely sincere helpful feedback so yeah, if youâre one of those people who shyâs away from confrontation it may be worth not saying anything or even cutting your losses and finding another group if you have the time.
Keep in mind these players rely on nobody calling them out on their BS and letting them continually be a detriment is bad for the community.
I donât think itâs a stretch to say zealots who play their class as weaker cowering vets are playing it âwrongâ, Iâve seen an alarming number of them and Iâm sure yâall have as well.
Right or wrong, itâs up to each person to figure a class and playstyle that works for them, even if that doesnât align with how you (or I, for that matter) might choose to play.
There are definitely fundamentals everyone should be mindful of, regardless of class/playstyle, and while you hit on a couple of them (resource sharing/usage), I think MOST important (and oft neglected) is to STAY WITH YOUR GROUP.
Not only does the game reward you for coherency and toughness regen, but youâre also with reach of someone who help you if you get netted, dogged or mutantâŚed. LOL
I wouldnât. They donât care what I think any more than Iâd care what they thought, and most of the time the run can be finished despite their fondness for the flavour of purple crayons.
Thereâs no winners when you try to lecture people about this stuff.
Most of the time, the lecturer just parrots youtubers or whatever. Theyâre almost never worth listening to.
The most Iâll say is âplease share ammoâ which has always been enough for the behaviour to change. Otherwise I might say a few Ogryn things and a âGGâ at the end.
Itâs just not worth getting upset at things you canât control and your unsolicited advice is probably going to fall on deaf ears.
For example, when I was playing, as psyker, I would just say âhey guys, just FYI I have the perks that give you big coherency buffsâ; people would then remember that coherency is a thing and suddenly we move together⌠which is really all you need to clear any level in the game.
That and some games you play like a support character instead; stick to your bad teammate like glue and save them from elites and being hit in the back.
Carrying is a challenge, god knows this boring-arse pos game needs it.
I havenât launhed the game since February (?) so canât say I haveâŚ
It may just be OPâs wording but itâs still a warning sign in rhis kind of topic. You cab certainly try to define a âcorrectâ way to play a certain class but I doubt youâll find a consensus around it, no matter how you define it.
Itâs really just Zealots getting more wise to suicidal tactics and actually playing the game with a bit of thought to it.
Blindly charging into rooms on Damnation is an easy way to lose all of your Toughness and HP, which is no good. There can be multiple different groups of Gunners and Shooters, and randomly losing your Holy Revenant buff isnât worth the risk.
Thereâs literally no downside to scouting out a room for a few seconds and feeling out how to make the engagement work.
I think Zealot is one of my most played operatives at this point and while I think they should always be the first one to enter a room and lock down ranged enemies, thereâs certainly validity in hanging back and just clearing out a room a bit before charging in.
Uncommonly I sometimes end up being the de facto sharpshooter of the group, so that is one of many variables to consider.
sign. I donât think any constructive conversation can take place if you already have a âcorrectâ way to play in mind.