The Mk III Cleaver shreds Crushers with Rending and Heavy Attack buffs. You need a half-decent roll, though.
What rending you getting for it outside the on elite kill talent? Wouldn’t think that’d bring it up from its pre patch 13 state against crushers as utter garbage to decent TBH.
It works pretty easily, just don’t expect to one-shot them. The bleed stacks should do most of the job and you just have to bob and weave around a little. The Paul really underperforms in most things except for the special attack, compared to other weapons anyway.
I don’t see it.
And even then, I would think mk 4 cleaver would do it faster than a mk 3 against crushers because of better headshot damage
me- says the uncharged version is the worst melee weapon in the game.
you- WHat are you talking about?! Proceeds to list potential pros for the weapon that almost all relate to the charged up state of the weapon
To get those benefits you need to constantly power it up, hence this in my first comment
it doesnt matter if it balanced in the charged up state, I dont disagree with that, what im saying is the gameplay of powering it up over and over to get those benefits is probably one of the worst game design choices Fatshark has ever made
Also the pros you listed dont hold up as well as you think. It seems like you probably havent used the weapon much, but considering the amount of time you spend on the forums you probably dont get much gameplay time anyway so that would make sense
If you were to actually use the weapon you would see that its CC is far worse in play than on paper or from what you might see in the psykhanium. In play its CC from the powered up attack doesnt always apply, especially not in group play.
Not only is there a limit to the amount of targets it can stun with its powered up blast, it also sometimes doesnt re-apply the stun to the targets until they have fully recovered, whether it be from being CC’d from your previous attack or from another player. So if you try to stun lock targets, you would quite quickly see that most of the enemies will ignore the 2nd or 3rd CC hit and then would have chances to hit you while you are doing another swing or doing the power up animation.
This becomes very apparently in very high level play with super high enemy density. So no, I definitely wouldnt bring it in question for the best CC in the game, I would argue the zealot’s Crusher with hammerblow using uncharged attacks has better CC than the Paul even with using its powered state over and over. As the Zealot’s crusher can send enemy crushers to the floor with a single light attack when built properly. And its not even in the same league as psyker’s Smite as the smite will override all other CC and actually perma stun-lock things.
Sure the horde clear is passable, its still the worst of all Ogryn’s weapons in that regard as a baseline and only becomes somewhat decent with brutal momentum. Except the light attacks dont even have a place in the game at all at the moment. A gun Ogryn using it can potentially take 10 light attacks to kill a single Trapper.
Its armor killing is entirely dependent on powered up attack spam, and after testing it in game just now, its barely on par with the Mk4 knife. The edge actually goes to the mk4 knife with the proper attack combo getting the stab headshots on the target. The only weapon it bests in armor killing is the shield.
Once you factor in bleed it only gets worse for the weapon because the uncharged heavies are so poor that they are not even worse using, so you are entirely reliant on the charged up heavies, and those come up at a much slower rate than any of his other weapons, resulting in a much worse bleed out put, which really is a melee Ogryns main source of dps to both armor and hordes once built properly. As 3 heavy attacks with the Mk3 Club with the right blessings can put 400 damage bleed ticks on the target, or 1 charge and 1 heavy attack, bleeds a crusher out in seconds.
Opening a bulwark shield is whatever, its a fine gimmick to hold but it really is a non-issue in high level play, you have so many other ways to kill them most of the time they are a joke of an enemy.
And as far as mobility its fine, All the ogryn weapons feel about the exact same because you really dont even need to dodge much with Ogryn. Ive never factored in a weapons mobility with him because it doesnt really matter. This is 100% not the case with other classes though, mobility definitely matters, its just Ogryn is so powerful in melee combat that you actually could get away without dodging in most cases. You just need to hold that 1 dodge of the incoming dog or trapper and you are solid.
The gist is your list makes the weapon sound fine on paper but in play it really still by far his worst melee choice and still is in the argument for worst melee in the game.
It needs a rework
I’ll happily admit a lot of my experience with it is pre patch 13, I’ve been experimenting with Vet a lot recently since they’ve been in a constant state of flux, so sure I’ll go away and spend some time with it in current patch to see how it feels, something I already said I intend to do.
My comments were mostly related to the evidence/arguments presented in this thread for both sides. In your last post there you’ve actually provided good counter arguments rather than a lot of this thread just saying it’s bad with little elaboration. I will hold off on further comments here till I get some current patch hours with it.
yeah i agree its definitely easy for people to just say its bad and move on without explanation, sometimes it could even be just bandwagon talk from hearing its bad from others. Ogryn is my most played and ive given it quite a few chances so i felt like I had enough experience with it compared to his other weapons to give a better comparison
Overall it just really just needs a slight damage buff to be in a better place i think we can all agree on that
Really though my biggest gripe is the power up gameplay fatshark has made. Not even with the Paul specifically but just in general. I do think they could have done a better job with the weapons that feel like you need to power it up more often than not. The chain weapons are in a decent spot where you dont feel like you need to power it up all the time because its for a specific niche rather than just better across the board. The recently buffed zealot crusher is a good example of what they could do as it now feels great to use unpowered and then you have the power attack when you need it.
Then try it. Seriously, it’s surprising.
I don’t remember mine doing enough damage on weakspot to kill a groaner. I think I have better horde clear on my knife on psyker.
That’s subjective. Only knives have passable mobility to me and saying “you’re faster than a turtle” is doing little in a way of praise.
Mind you, I don’t think weapon is actually that bad, just misdesigned. And to be fair I haven’t touched it in a while. It wasn’t good enough before and I cared little for it after. I’ll give it a whirl this weekend, but that comes at a risk of me hating it.
I agree. I want the Power Maul to succeed as I do with all weapons! Ogryns need their funny baseball bat after all. While we’re on the subject of balancing weapons the (Veteran) Mk III Shovel is also massively underperforming compared to the Mk VII. The Mk III is too slow and clunky with no real damage to reward that speed drawback, especially considering that it does approximately the same amount of damage as the Mk VII, which attacks WAY faster and more fluently.
But I have not taken any damage though…
Also “half the time” it’s an exaggeration, faster sure but Paul has other things going on other than just it’s cleave damage.
I find hard to believe that a BB would shred crushers especially a pack of 4/6 of them with all mobs around them like it’s always Damn+
But I do play with it a lot, what you are saying is technically can be correct but you make it sound worse than it actually is.
First of all i never noticed a limit of the staggered enemies, it affects enemies in a radius from the explosion, the closer you are the bigger the suppression.
Stagger is all about timing, before the special assignment mission it was definitely possible to permanently stunlock whatever enemy with charged power up attack, this last update secretly brought some changes to the stagger mechanic, I have yet very limited sample of situations but until now I haven’t noticed differences.
I don’t argue that it’s the best CC in the game, smite, rumbler, granades… For sure surpass it.
But the spot for best melee CC for sure is a contender. The zealot indignatus for sure can get one crusher to the ground but that’s not really necessary, what you care is to prevent the enemy to attack, and Paul has double the suppression radius, also the horde clear Is vastly superior.
This is just false, it surpasses all the clubs, shovel 3 and 19 and i don’t really know much about the shield. And his dependance on brutal momentum is a real strawman, crusher relies in hammerblow for his strong stagger, bully clubs relie on thrust/thunderous for their elite dps.
Other thing to consider is that charge powered up attack cleaves infinitely, so you apply bleed stacks to 4/5 elites, and start to stack the ogryn steroids, the TTK one single elite is not impressive, but TTK multiple elites is not bad for a melee weapon considering the safety in which it operates.
It’s not, it’s a very versatile weapon, that excels in CC and doesn’t have any significant weaknesses.
I would agree with that, something like 10-20%
Extra damage would help him reach breakpoints much easier if you don’t get the rolls that you want… Or you know fix crafting…
Yes you are right actually horde clear with shield it’s pretty good too, I still don’t like it for the other points that i have listed before.
You need to have good rolls and the right perks unfortunately, if you are interestd here is the build:
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/builds/9ad12dd4-ff85-4eb1-92d5-5a4537e68184/mr-ogryn?utm_medium=website&utm_source=gameslantern&utm_campaign=share_button
Ranged weapon in truth is to your discretion as are the curios.
Boy have I made a long post.
Some thing that occurs to me reading the many walls of text:
The weapon might be quite dependent on getting sufficiently good rolls.
Yes, Brutal Momentun is OP, but to utilize it, you do need to hit 300 weakspot damage, ideally including on the second target in case you miss a head.
It also usually doesn’t feel great.
When I play with an Ogryn, I usually hate sharing a melee space with them.
All my human melee loadouts usually have a weapon blessing that requires sustained hits that I just can’t reliably do if enemies are just sent flying without warning. It’s also just so tedious to run after stragglers I knocked back somewhere when using an Ogryn Maul.
Then then there’s the weird Fatsharky-CC mechanics.
A knocked down enemy can not be staggered and blocks player pathing way more than a staggered enemy, and stuns and staggers can override suppression, and sometimes even stronger staggers, leading to weird cases especially with large hordes where two instances of area suppression can result in enemies recovering more quickly than with a single hit, and at that point there’s nothing you can do about it.
I maintain that I’d like a bit more base damage, say, +5% against all armours on L1 and +10 base damage on the heavies; I don’t think this would make the weapon too strong. But I accept that some people like it, so I just won’t use it and leave it to others.
To be able to reach 1HSBP on poxwalkers easly you need to have some +infested on the weapon, without it you require to many stacks of steroids to be actually worth it.
This is mine, and what I consider a godroll for this build. But if you don’t care about the carapace damage you can swap the +flack to +infested and you should reach both BP on Groaners and Poxalkers heads in after 1 or 2 hits depending of the density of the horde.
This is what i hate about this horrendus crafting system, if players had actual agency on how to use their weapons the possibility of diverse playstyle would skyroket.
I’d argue investing entire perk for single armor type to only be able to weak spot kill chaff already is too much investment that it’s worth.
I think I’ll find my way to play the weapon.
Suit yourself, but consider that infested will probably be at least 40% of the enemies you are going to face with the weapon, and with the exception of carapace, there is no relevant reduction in brakpoints with any other armor type to my knowledge.
I’d argue that killing chaff is the biggest priority after specials since without them to interfere even a crusher patrol is harmless.