In a vacuum? I agree with you. The context in which I’m thinking generally involves more than just one special (bad communication on my end).
Much like anything in this game the threat does not come from anything individual, and pushing then stabbing it is fine but is a much bigger time commitment than just killing it under a second under a blaze of gunfire being able to move on the next target.
But yeah overall it was a bad example lol.
Its hard to have a convo about staves because of the variance between them, i finally got a well rolled Trauma staff and got the 2 good blessings and have been having no issues with hordes or specials, basically the only thing i have issues with now is gunners outside of the staffs secondary range, but BB and assail can pick those off just fine.
That’s fair, bad of me to nitpick that point in a vacuum when nothing is ever alone after T3.
Compared to… what? Be specific. Give examples where Surge staff is better than something else. On any class. You could perhaps also compare it to the Surge of pre-13. Which, you know, actually did more damage to targets that matter. Like Maulers and Crushers.
I already told you
If your benchmark for viable is a Veteran with practically any ranged weapon but especially Plasma Gun, then your vision is completely skewed, because they make practically any ranged weapon OP
Case in point, nerfing the Revolver did nothing to how stupid it is on Veteran, it just made it worse on Psyker and Zealot who are already starving for guns options (this is from Auric perspective obviously)
Surge Staff with the appropriate build and perks can one shot Ragers and Gunners, and three shot Crushers, that’s excellent
People lament pre patch stun staff but it was extremely mediocre, a discussion which was impossible to have
And now that we have Smite, old Surge Staff basically on steroids and actually good, people say Smite is bad
This community is frankly hilarious
In fact, most ranged weapons outside of staffs should perform just as well, if you ask me even just as well as the Revolver
But like i said, they don’t, and why, well because if they did they’d be broken, because of Veterans
There’s this class sitting in the forums complaining all day about how weak they are, somehow, who’s gatekeeping practically every single ranged weapon in the game because if they were good for everyone they’d be too good on Veteran
This is something players but more importantly Fatshark are going to have to understand
And it also results in people like you who think a great weapon like the Surge Staff is weak
Now watch as they nerf the Revolver again and buff the Bolter instead
not sure if that is true i can control small packs of maulers, ragers etc. it stops pox bursters, trappers, bombers, flamers and hounds from doing their nasty business.
Especcialy if you have a dog mission when 6-8 dogs show up it’s pretty controllable because of the stagger around your main target.
The difference to Trauma Staff is that it kills the main target fast, whily trauma mostly only staggers like smite does, but surge kills stuff pretty easy and fast and staggers enemies around.
I have one with faster charge (warp flurry) and hogher crit chance (Warp nexus)
whatever the build i made is fun to me and usage of Surge is great imho, Trauma is also nice but i dont want to play similar loadouts i have with other classes, i like to play Flamer Zealot for example and i run a Pistol Veteran.
another point is i try to stay out of melee as much as possible, especially versus a crusher for example because i’m a oneshhot.
At Launch the Surge staff wasnt that good like it is now imho, i have no data, but it feels better to me especially versus maulers.
Crushers get bain bursted after gettings staggered.
I did not compare it to Plasma. In fact, I haven’t mentioned Plasma even once. You’re the one who keeps bringing it up. I haven’t even played Plasma on this patch because Vet is my least played class, I don’t have a good one, and I spent millions kitting out my Zealot. Which, by the way, does insanely better than Psyker while barely using ranged at all. Imagine that.
I pointed out that Surge is worse now, and your reply is… ‘whatever’? That’s… uh… ok.
I’m also very curious about what loadout on other classes could possibly be similar to Trauma?
Seconding the above that Support psyker isn’t as good as people say.
At the end of the day, I can’t Q up for Auric with a hole in my build, the chance im going to get shunted into a bad position, or have teamates do the same, spawn into a clutch, or just any of the many ways this game can decide to put you on your own looking at a rager mob or crusher blob.
And support psyker just falls apart there, a Dueling and good facepokes might get you by but without some talents backing up your damage and dodging, it wont last long.
It does come back around when your with a set comp team, and you are all together and communicating, with your other teamates being plasma vets or somthing that has DPS to make up for your loss, but even then you are often-
stunning things your friends can easily kill anyway
protecting them from gunfire they are also able to dodge through or deal with.
But those are extreme edge cases its not like its not viable, just over time I have found a similiar experience that gunpsyker in various forms seems to be thee few ways to keep up with other classes.
Oh, the surge staff M1 is actually useful, however, using it like a rapid fire turret cannon and using the m2 for just stunning mobs, is pretty decent, it just like the other staves still kills big stuff too slowly.
Pretty much true. Veteran has so much raw power in his tree rn, and everyone’s fixated on buffing his keystones.
Ogryn and veteran are definitely the strongest rn, and zealot and psyker are definitely weaker.
Trauma does large aoe damage and staggers. Its far more useful than smite which only works if there are no targets.
What loadout is similar to trauma staff? With the exception of ogryn explosive gauntlet and grenades?
Trauma is also excellent for melee just a quick dodge charged secondary at your feet and knock all the crushers on your ass. The surge only hits 2 at a time which is fine on lower difficulties, its just not practical for 12 dogs coming qround the corner or 6 crushers running at you. You can spam it but you are only hitting 2 per cast and you cant pick the 2nd target either so better hope you hit the one you want.
you played with many bad zealots then, Tbh zealots can devour crushers insanely fast with its bleed build, also Thunderhammers are not bad at it too even if you get stunlocked after every hit of the Hammer special attack, if you time yourself correctly you can win against 10 crushers.
Edit: also… if you only want to save the teammate from the crushers as fast as you can because you think you can’t kill them fast enough The relic and the stun granade are your best friends.
The level of simultaneous chest-thumping and pity-potting going on in every conceivable direction here is ridiculous if you ask me. Like comically so. All of you are right and none of you are right. Clearly.
To the OP: Psyker is fine, you just need to find your groove and a combination of weapons and talents that clicks for you.
For melee play around with an Illis Force sword with deflector to try out that blessing. It’s a great weapon for damage, has a high dodge count, and with kinetic deflection talent can be quite tanky.
If you go Gun Psyker, take Sciers Gaze, and a Columns Mk V infantry Autogun. Pairs well with Smite to provide your team with great crowd control in a pinch. Disrupt Destiney is a fun keystone to pair it all with.
If you don’t want to go gun payker, a void strike staff is the most straight forward staff and can do good work on hordes and armor with charged attacks. Venting Shriek is a good safety need to keep from blowing up, and you can pair with Brain Burst and various soul blaze talents to round out the kit. Empowered Psionics is great with Brain Burst and lets you deal with specials and elites well. Can also go trauma staff (especially if you have the soulblaze blessing) but it’s a little tricker to learn the trauma staff well.
i don’t play psyker too much, but i currently have it set up with the surge staff and smite. i always play auric damnation, and i find as long as i position well, i don’t really have too many issues. i have my force sword for close range fighting, and everything else is basically stun-locked for my teammates.
i know a lot of people don’t like support-y roles, but i find it fun lol
Out of curiosity why would you go with Surge and Smite? They provide pretty similar functions.
surge does good damage to flak, carapace, and fodder, while still being able to lock down a decent area and remain mobile. i can also pretty much insta-stun enemies(at a decent range) who are about to attack my teammates. smite takes a second to ramp up, but is for larger area control in case i/we get overwhelmed. they suck against monsters, but that’s what my sword and teammates are for~ lol
on top of that, i can just play really well with it 
I’m in the same boat, OP. I have all 4 classes at 30. My zealot, veteran and ogryn all feel great. My psyker on the other hand feels terrible. Half as effective as my veteran and twice as squishy. Not sure what great power psyker has that justifies them dying twice as fast as other classes.
Psyker is also the only class I play where I don’t care much for the blitz. Brain burst is too slow, assail is too random, and smite is okayish but I want something that kills enemies, not just CCs them.
Pick the most meta build possible with Psyker or go home. No matter what I’ve built, I always feel fragile in pubs even with meme stuff like taking all toughness generating perks + Warp Charges w/ toughness regen. It genuinely feels to me as if you must commit fully to playing only the Psyker for all of your playtime or you’ll always feel like something is wrong with the class or that you’re having a bad game. At least, this is the conclusion I’ve come to over the past two weeks where I’ve been tinkering with my builds trying to make Psyker feel good. Like, yes, I can get top damage or go on an elite destroying spree. I can do this on other classes and not feel like I’m suffering rather than having fun. If I only played friend premades or only played with Auric Maelstrom pugs I’m sure I’d be glazing about how amazing Psyker is but as it is right now the class depends way too much on the team. A pub group is just barely a team. The other classes are dramatically more independent and don’t need so much outside assistance to get things done. Edit: I’ll make an exception in what I’ve said: Force Swords and Soulstealer are ok on paper. But I shouldn’t be forced to play Force Sword just to feel less fragile.
I main Psyker but play all 4 classes in Damnation at least; Psyker is the squishiest, but with staff Psykers, have decent CC and splash-damage sustain. We’re not really glass cannons, if someone has good aim on any other class and some ammo, they will outdamage you on single targets like bosses very easily. If we’re alive, we’ll be doing constant damage and CC/utility where other classes can start to fall off without ammo, AND we help them not run out.
Ogryn, my least played class, easily feels the strongest, because yeah, you can tank anything in melee without disablers around. Just keep attacking, you’ll get toughness back and kill everything. People saying Psyker has better toughness regen when Ogryn can restore like 50% of its toughness per melee heavy just…confuse me. Sure, we can get Psyker toughness back, but it evaporates far quicker on Psyker, given far less stagger, cleave, and reach on our weapons, we allow leaks far more easily. Vet and Zeal obviously have more melee attack speed talents, which reduces leaks, as well as better toughness levels and toughness damage reduction skills.
Playing Psyker means any two random poxwalker lunges can remove a huge chunk of health, and the director LOVES to sneak poxwalker trickles to backstab you.
My solution to melee hordes and backstabs: head on a swivel all the time, and switch to melee weapon and hold block if enemies are too close and you’re not clear. I run Assail, Bubble Shield, Trauma, and Combat Knife VI a lot nowadays.
Trauma can deal with Elites in melee like no other staff, even if it does scatter them. Voidstrike is better in hallways or at a distance, but close up, it just isn’t fast or splashy enough to stagger multiple spread out elites. Surge has too little splash or AOE to stop big elite packs without a lot of assistance or space. Purgatus can’t stun Crushers or Bulwarks on demand, even if its LMB is great for stunning everything else.
So Trauma is king of close defense. Not fast killing, but enough CC and damage to clean up situations that are game over for other staves. Just roll high Charge Rate and Blast Radius and probably Quelling speed, and get at least Warp Flurry as a blessing on it; you want to splash and knockdown as many as possible, as quickly as possible, and prioritize any over-heads from Crushers/Maulers, then any Rager about to start its onslaught. I’ve gotten used to just staring at my feet and blasting, immediately quelling, and doing that over and over til we’re safe.
As for actual melees where you can’t Trauma because they’re too close to you or behind you, I run Combat Knife VI with a bit of Stam regen curio perks and Kinetic Deflection (block with Peril), so you can push attack very rapidly with only tiny windows where you don’t count as blocking, and it still does good damage to most targets with Uncanny Strikes and one of either on-hit/crit Bleed blessing.
Push attack obviously pushes (so good CC) and can puncture 4-5 hordelings, so you can kill hordes quick enough without even dodge dancing, almost entirely safely (except from Crusher/Mauler overheads or multiple Ragers, disablers, the usual dangers). With low peril, you can take a lot of backstab attacks without running out of block, so just slowly turning and spamming will get you through any simple horde.
No other melee weapon is this safe on Psyker, especially in “I’m stuck in place because I’m wedged by bodies and can’t dodge” moments; Combat Swords Parry has considerable openings even if you spam it, and all Dueling/Force/Combat/Chain sword push attacks are too slow and leave much bigger not-blocking openings for horde attacks to leak through, and Psykers CANNOT allow leaks. You’re also very fast and dodge very far with Knife, so holding heavy attacks as you use “hold to sprint” can let you escape to teammates or get your back to a wall quickly to stop backstabs, and you can obviously still dodge dance as you push attack for extra safety from Elites in close range.
I run Assail because I can chuck a few and switch back to blocking and push attacking as the shards continue to chew up enemies, and because Assail can kill Snipers and gunner/shooter packs when they’re spread out or outside of Smite range, which honestly, only grenades can compete with. Brain Burst can be solid, but I prefer to Trauma if they’re close or Assail RMB if they’re far, because I can hurt or stun more than one sniper/gunner with Trauma/Assail. Assail spam also chews up hordes with specials hidden in them or Rager packs, or stuns them enough for you to push attack them safely. Only thing it feels bad for is staggering Reapers or if Bulwarks are leading a charge, and most weapons don’t really do that outside of plasma, so fair enough. That’s a job for Trauma, basically.
For Monstrosities, if you have Rending Shockwave on your Trauma, you can blast it then charge into melee, and push attack weakspots. You won’t top DPS most of the time, but you can safely tank a monstrosities while constantly stabbing it very very easily because of Kinetic Deflection. Throwing a bubble shield onto a Beast of Nurgle, then just standing just off to the side behind it to trigger its close range tail swipe or body slam can act like a CC, because you can easily block its slam and slap attacks between push attacks to keep wailing on it while your teammates unload into it.
Anyway, this has become an essay on how I play Psyker…but hopefully it helps a bit. Other builds work too, but I play with PUGs most of the time, so I need to be able to do everything, even if I’m not the best at anything, and that weapon/ability combo works best for me.
It’s worth noting that Trauma staff was NOT an easy pickup coming from other staves…its aiming is finnicky and you want to unleash it pretty quick, which took practice to get used to its tilt aiming for snap shots.
Also, this build has more constant weapon switching than most other Psyker builds or other class builds I can imagine. You need to quick quell with staff before switching to Assail to chuck a few before switching to Knife to go stab and so on, so the constant input lag and little input rollbacks where weapon changes don’t go through nowadays can literally just kill you from Peril overload “misclicks”, but it’s fun to juggle everything you need to do to make it play near 100% capacity. You have multiple tools for any situation, so it’s a lot of learning and fun to do the right thing instinctually.
Why I don’t play psyker when the servers are lagging. Which is a lot lately.
Great write up btw.