Not every weapon in the game should be fun for every player. If you do that you will end up with the most samy and generic weapons in the industry.
I love the helbore, but i hate almost every single thing the ogryn has. Does it mean its bad or that it should be changed to cater to me? Absolutely not. Other people love it, and it should stay that way.
No progress is lost, I’m just not gonna tolerate 2 or 3 people stamping their feet and insulting me over and over because they don’t agree with me. I think I’ve articulated my points, and I think I’ve articulated them well. The only reason I brought it up was because I want the game I love and gameplay styles I enjoy to be better. If they’re gonna be assmad about it, that’s a them problem, and a problem for moderation, unfortunately.
I hate to give mods more work, but in lieu of a block button, all I can do is make my case, ignore the flamers, and move on.
Unless someone brings up something I havent thought of yet, I’ve nothing else to say beyond what I’ve already said.
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The Plasma Gun does significantly more with its ammo than the Helbore does.
Ammo efficiency isn’t about shooting more, it’s about what the ammo DOES.
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Indeed, and helbore’s ammo does alot. As you can see from the above video, or my scoreboards, or my offer still stands so i can still show you personally in-game how good the helbore is.
A plasma gun used well with an optimal build and setup could probably kill about 60 crushers and use half its ammo stack, I’d guess.
You could probably do about the same with the hellbores, but it would take three hours of playing to shoot half its ammo. 
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You wouldn’t be using the helbore to kill the 60 crushers. You’d be using it to kill the army of ranged enemies behind them and the specials/disablers all around while your team deals with the heavy armored ugly bastards.
The plasma gun has its job, just as helbore does neither gun takes the other’s territory.
Also i find it amusing that you starting fighting that the plasma gun (the weapon some consider to be one of the most op in the game) is better then helbore.
Couldnt find a weaker gun to pit it against?
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The Surgical blessing and Shock Trooper talent synergise to make the Helbore absurdly ammo efficient. Ammo neutral might be an exaggeration but not by much.
That is why I commented about losing ammo efficiency if I swapped to the faster mark.
I was pleading for something more balanced.
I think that cleave is too much for light shots. It should cleave a little. And more you charge it, more it should cleave.
But at same time, I would like that scavenger gives you in return 1% of your ammo reserve + clip
Now I plead for a buff of all weak weapons. As example I would quote 2… tactical axes (need a slight buff) and also autopistols (need badly a buff, and not blessings but the weapon itself).
True, and cause you can chain crits.
There’s a long time that I did not play helbore. But the weapon itself is good. The problem is more that Darktide is not the best game for long range weapons. And helbore shines at long range.
So, you have to adapt and delete elite/special that are not even in contact with the group. And of course, you should to use the light shots in close combat cause they are really good.
I agree with that and have no problem with this.
Before I was thinking evis was annoying. But now, the old evis is one weapon I love cause of the pattern attack that allow more diversity. And I don’t want to use the new.
But, before, evis was not a gun for me. Actually I have the same feeling with Combat axes. I feel that achlys is really great on its move. But, sadly, a lot less effective than other combat axes.
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Ok, I did not want to continue the discussion without even retesting headhunters.
Here the result… the build is not the best, first time I tried the weapon, I was several times wiped by ragers. So, I returned to VoC instead of exec stance.
I took MF… I know this is really surprising from me. However, MF changes the gun.
The gameplay was more stay away, and shoot heads far away
FOV weapons mod for this - I don’t think it is possible with vanilla. FOV has a drawback, you cannot aim in close range if you set it to aim at long range (I can deal with that with hip fire).
The team was good, even if you see one in grey, all the team was good. The psyker had the dome, that permitted me to, sometimes, be protected.
I am far away of what you can do with this gun. 14% weakspots, that’s a joke for me… especially with this gun. However, the 32% crits is normal, I can up this to 40% (did not take the +5% critics perk).
The build is pretty bad against monstrosities.
I picked a regular damnation mission. I am not sure that I am ready to go in an auric with this weapon, at least not yet.
Here the result:
Must say that, at 10 stacks of MF, the gun one shot elites / specials easily. I will also say that it was not what I remembered from this weapon. I was surprised, at least at the second mission.
The first was with a team that could not handle what was incoming. So, I was in melee all the time with ragers on me. This has shown me the limits of the weapon.
I must test more… cause the weapon seems not as bad as I was thinking. But, don’t expect something with the power of a plasma gun or a revolver. But still, this is pretty good.
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I was surprised by the graia (single shot) headhunter myself, it was able to keep up on an Auric Damnation last night, and I wasn’t in last place on damage. Competent kills, easy headshots, and it was perfectly happy whether it was in close combat or at range.
The triple shot was very difficult to keep on target but I think I could get some salvageable damage with some practice, and the double-tapper was very fun, but it had hellbore problems where it just couldnt keep up with the spawns.
that is the vrak VII
The agri IX / vrak III?
And so, wich one you used?
I am looking at my inventory right now, the single shot is Graia MkVII.
I’m not hopping into psykanium to figure out if the columnus or the agripinaa is the triple shot right now; playing in a party with gf and friends
Ok, just tested helbore (MK II) to see the difference. Retested also the MKIII. And compared that with the Headhunter Vraks MKVII.
First thing, I don’t like the MKII. It deals not enough damages to be really good at deleting elite. The MKIII is terribly better. But suck with the bayonnet.
And then, there is the MKI. This one seems really good. Good charged shots, and good bayonet.
But tbh, I am not sure MKIII bayonet should be changed, or it would make the III with all good things.
Now, if we compare to the Vraks VII. The vraks VII permits to one shot elites out of ogryns. But still you can kill crushers (several headshots needed) and other ogryns (easily). Helbore III is still really better against Ogryn (or MKI) but the MK VII can chain shots and so, you can deal with this threat also.
The MKVII is semi auto. It means you can also chain shots if needed.
Then the result, I still don’t like the Helbore MK II. I feel that the III is ten times better. But, I feel that the MK I could be very good.
However, the Vraks MKVII, seems very good, at contrary of what I was thinking. This is a special gameplay that can annoy several players. I use it out of coherency to get the +20% dmg from longshot and +20% from killzone (+ the +30% for weak spots from precisions strike). With the +15% dmg to elite and the +20% against ogryn and monstrosities, the build deal good damages. And with the +75% finesse power (or 110% if you opt for 15 stacks) from MF… well, this is pretty good.
It could be more if I was using exec stances, but it is really at the detriment of my survival chances. Also, I am not sure the +25% damages would really change something as the DPS dealt are really high with my current build (reminder: I can already one shot close to everything). I could also try stealth, but I don’t like the stealth screen effect that forbids you to really see far away cause it is too dark. And there is only a mod that suppress it entirely (and I don’t like the no effect at all). So, not adapted to what I would like to to do (using stealth to reposition myself and aim).
Of course, this is only on veteran. I am not sure of the result on a zealot 
But must say that this topic has provided me a new build and a new gameplay. I think I will try to train with this weapon. But not in an auric maelstrom. I am not sure the weapon is good for such difficulty with all what spawns everywhere.
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Pasting this here because I can’t follow the mix of old/new weapon names. It’ll come eventually.
(credit: path.exe)
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I won’t use new names… I refuse to deal with such stupidity from Fatshark. So I don’t mix them, I use only old names.
And yes I use the MKVII with surgical and deadly accurate. This is what makes sense on a semi auto precision rifle.
What is?
That’s the author’s name.
https://1drv.ms/w/c/e2a0a519389b2f30/EciPxKdXTJlPiEj2LUHKr58BbN_LckMOC4bba3qnlO8THg
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I use that
The +5% critical chances, this is just tests.
The +10% critical damages would be better, but it is very situational. You don’t really aim all the time needed to assure to land a critical shot every time, and when you shot an elite, you deal enough damages to one shot it.
At contrary, +5% critical rate means 1 more shot / 20 landing as critical.
the +10% weakspot, I really advice it as you will try to hit weakspots. Here the damage chart:
+10% weakspot means:
- for flak +39 dmg ((689-293)x10%)
- for unarmoured: +49 dmg ((762-272)x10%)
- infested +36 (useless except against dogs), unyielding: +24, carapace +3 (totally useless) and maniac +24
+25% flak means: 293 x 25% = +73 dmg
+25% unarmoured: 272x25% = +68 dmg
I would say that the +25% unarmored is totally useless. And I prefer to get a dmg bonus for every enemies instead of just a +73 dmg just for flak (and still I get a nice +39dmg).
But, of course, it depends how you want to use it (I you don’t headshot, something that would be strange with an headhunter, sure you should not go for a weakspots damage bonus)… and also, I am at the very beginning of tests. When I test, I use to try different blessings, different perks and different builds before achieving to a good build.
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I would assume the author and his advisors were thinking of breakpoints on dreg gunner or shotgunner heads. Shotgunner if with crits and no talents. Probably gunner once you include talents.
You still one shot them without this.
/shrug I didn’t write it. I just needed pictures next to the new names.
Edit: imo perk recommendations should come with a note of which ult/keystone is being used.
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