Havoc and repeating the mistakes of Weaves

When I saw 40 I thought, hmm, cut down from 160 (absurdity) but not cut down enough. Even MMORPGs dont make 40 raids. World of Warcraft has 60 raids today, and that game was announced 23 years ago. We are bound to have some stinkers along that slog through 40 randomized raids with straight-up antagonistic modifier/mutator combos that disrespect players’ time.

Then I saw that they have a progress reset system if you don’t climb successfully. You fall back down rungs and have to climb again. So they also learned nothing from Auric Storm Survivor, a penance that earned many a complaint post because its “consecutive” requirement encourages quitting at the first sign of trouble. Losing progress is toxic progression design. And it’s not even based in reality. I don’t lose my degrees retroactively when I make a math mistake years later. Nobody comes up and takes my martial arts belts or Scout badges away when I mess up high kicking or tying a knot today. But Havoc will kick us down runs we’ve already cleared if we can’t make the next raid in 3 tries or less.

Then the random modifiers. So some weeks will be practically unplayable, and players will check out. Killing momentum if they want people coming back week after week.

And you still can’t just select modifiers you want to challenge yourself with. Custom Mode is not that complex an idea. The beloved Hades has 32 “heat” levels for its hardcore players to challenge themselves with, and you are free to pick whichever. I understand wanting to control matchmaking, but let’s be real, this difficulty is a challenge arcade for organized teams. 40 difficulties is a nightmare for quick play queueing, no matter how you slice it.

I like this attitude, but we don’t have much cause for optimism. Weaves remains a dead game mode since 2021 with droves of player feedback ignored

Back4Blood (another 4-player coop horde extraction game) has a similarly complicated raid mode called Trial of the Worm that nobody plays cuz matchmaking is impossible. Just like the Havoc announcement indicates you can get rank 1 players next to high rank players, and it just goes predictably poorly. Matching ranks for quick play queue is completely unfeasible cuz there are too many ranks, the queue time would trip past the point anybody is willing to wait.

New modifiers is indeed cool, we like that! But why on earth implement it the same way as a previous failure? overengineered to death and a predictably bad experience

Come on, Fatshark, if you are so sure of how fun your game difficulty modifiers are, then give players freedom to PICK and SELECT them on a map of choice and let the playerbase decide which of those in what combinations are worth playing.

Then you can collect data and share it with us, and we can discuss why some of them aren’t that popular?

Surely that is not too much to ask?