From a consumer perspective

Now that a lot of the white knights during beta and post launch have gone silent I feel like it’s time to say what’s on my mind lately.

We are consumers, our job as the consumer is literally to get as much possible while paying the least amount of money. This has how its always been whether that be at a restaurant, shopping for computer parts, or buying games. If one company cannot/unwilling to meet customer demands while also meeting their own profit margins then customers will go somewhere else. Meeting demands in the free market is how innovation is born and why we have stunning 3D engines that give us graphics that one could only dream of 2 decades ago.

Lately however there seems to be this idea of being “grateful” or “accepting” what is sold to us regardless of the quality. Even out right berating and attacking those who question the moral integrity of tencent/fatshark. This contenment with mediocrity is why the gaming industry has stagnated and why garbage games like cp2077, 2042, battlefront 2, call of duty release like complete garbage and is only focused on selling skins, loot boxes and other monetized in game features.

Truth is, when arrogant community managers like hedge tell us off by saying you ain’t getting these basic QOL features because “this isn’t cod” or “there’s no new updates go to sleep” even after promising updates, he’s basically telling us to shop somewhere else and to not buy into the next fatshark/tencent release, as a consumer ill gladly take his inferred advice and not spend on any more fatshark releases.


This is a false implication. Stunning 3D graphics come from investing in fundamental research in mathematics funded by companies like NVidia, AMD, Frostbite etc. who can afford investing extra cash into research which itself yields no immediate profits. And they do it because they think having better graphics will help them sell more of their product for more money.

Operating a capitalist business has nothing to do with meeting demands - its sole purpose is extracting profits. BF2042 is 3rd best selling title in UK and 2nd best in the US, CP2077 saw multimillion sales and was the best selling title in China.
Point is: why spend on game development when you can spend on hype mongering (read: marketing) and get your profits that way?


Agreed with this sentiment, capitalism is purely wealth extraction, and games are going to suffer for it as we have terrible systems shoved at us to extract wealth from us. Even those of us who have very little to give.




Complacency with these kind of practices have led to more and more games to be released basically in an alpha or beta state. You couldn’t do that kind of crap 15 years ago ; now day-1 patches are literally universal.
I mean, we have zero endgame features here. Almost 1 month after launch and where’s crafting ? XP past lv 30 does nothing ? Crappy netcode on Malice+ ?


Marketing research works with big numbers. If you sell sнit, but people still buy millions of copies of it, and you then meet your targets, then why bother selling anything else?
Gaming market is literally oversaturated, but it is still growing despite all the crises in the world. That means that gamedevs and publishers just found new more effective ways of selling games to people. Someone did fuсkin’ buy all those millions of copies of the games mentioned in the OP, didn’t they? So those strategies appear to be working.


it is also a question of dignity of the product you create.
i am sick of half-assed game development and publishing.
this is not a matter of profit, you can always make insane sales if you have funds for marketing towards the most base average consumer.
most people buy excrement so regularly and willingly its not a metric of a good quality product.

shame on you, who made this composition of a game.
shame on you, that you did not do the extra steps.
shame on you, if you think this is fine.

this is a relatively new experience for me, never before have i spend so much time in forums compared to playing a game. this is unlike what i prefer. i like to game instead of writing in game forums.


Dignity is hard to monetize. Overspending on marketing campaigns is a much more reliable tactic. Precisely because:

Also, a ‘good product’ is the one that took the least ammount of effort producing while bringing the most profit. That’s actually the point I was making - you cannot talk about business using terms like ‘dignity’ and ‘hals-arsed’ - those terms don’t exist in the money world.

Question: Did you buy DT? If yes, did you refund it afterwards?

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i said good quality product.
also i think i know your type, you seem like one of the resignators.

shame on you, for defending this.

Sorry, you can insert the word, the sentence still reads as intended.

Defending what?

You haven’t answered my question though.

play with somebody else i know you already more then i prefer

Too bad, I was about to make point that the only thing we can really do (given that we’re content with living in capitalism) is to not pay for crаp games, on which I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. But you decided whip out some strawman instead and declare that you know some stranger on the Internet.
My guess would be that you have already paid for DT, so you contributed to the initial sales of this game, and your money will be among the profits that would tell FS and 10c that their strategy works. But that is just a guess since you dodged the important question.

Ok but why was that research needed during the 2 decades of gaming industry rise. Because consumers demanded more and more and companies has to keep up with demand. Thats just facts, im a business major and also have a degree in marketing.

At any point the project is so far behind they can’t even release some barely polished prototype this happens. But we all fall head first into it again because the hell else is there to play lol. Even an unfinished game like this is miles better than anything around it, which just begs the question what needs to be done to fix it?

I’m definitely not for adding any non-map content, since there’s a big mess with what we got not even in just active blessings/feats but with the classes themselves. That Ogryn buff he got in the prelaunch beta (+25% attack speed for 5s after bull rush) doesn’t even apply to any non-knife melee. Even the new one they just added…which also has the same push delay bug they fixed on a bunch of his other weapons.

Actually I still haven’t even got to play that new map, so the sooner the gameplay is sorted out (like buffs actually going out to the weapons they mention, F for Thunderhammer and V. Headhunter) the better.


Please Ignothethe (many) mobile typos!

If the consumers keep… consuming then for a profit seeking company the current state of games makes rationsl sense. Companies seek innovatve revenue streams / new markets as a matter of course. Back 15 years ago with the emerge of dlc vs pacaked exapnsions had similar kickback. Companies exist to produce values to shareholders. Though CSR and wider stakeholder considerations, including sustainability, have emerged these often need legistlated to enforce. We’re starting to see this in gaming specifically eg. Loot boxes.

That’s the point for me, there are undoubtedly anti consumer practices but withot legislation, and those practices giving more profit, its not surprising to see. Conpanies would pollute freely without cost if they could to take an anology. Again, rational response to profit seeking, setting aside some choose to be ethical but even then than can be a diffetentiation tactic to seek profit in most cases or have a longer term brand view. Being ethical at a net cost to shareholders for lower gain is rare abd can be against the required of a board. Ethical investing is moving the needle somewhat, but austin, thats changing the profit or share price to make those choice rational. All are a reaction to the market / environment the conpanies operate in.

You also need to factor executive incentives. That can lead to a principle agent problem even with shareholders and adverse actions and then you can get shareholder kickback. Legal, sack boatd etc. See cyberpunk legal issues.

I.e. if board remuneration is too short term then pushing out a game to hit fiscal / period targets abd bonuses makes sense to them, even if hitti g long term profits for the game itself and even longer term brand damage. Lack oglf goal congruence between exec and shareholders, and an extension to employees and consumers who have much less agency in the structure. I feel this happened here. Like cyperpunk. Like anthem.

Anyway, current state of the game, company and industry don’t really surprise me in that context. Think in terms of the company / board, not as a gamer / cobsumer.


Photorealistic graphics were not invented for gaming purposes. Even when it became feasible to do it in real time. Also according to your credentials you should be well aware of how industry actually shapes, molds and directs consumer demand to increase its own effeciency at achieving dual-purpose goals. So yes, you’re right, people love good graphics in games, but no, innovation does not owe everything to the so-called free market. Only point I snagged on in your OP.


Everything turns to trash when it’s made for the low standards of the unwashed masses. Such is the way of the world.

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i honestly blame tenshit this game is unbelievably shallow for the money involved

Bro i would LOVE to whale your game if YOU GAVE ME ACCESS TO THE COSMETICS I WANTED YOU (mf-slur, f-slur, other slurs)

I understand the sentiment. But I would put it another way. Niche material gets adapted to appeal to a larger audience so as to make more money. This isn’t wrong and doesn’t detract from the original in my opinion.

Take for example the Lord of the Rings. It is refined and full of subtleties rewarding multiple readings. Yes it got dumber when adapted for cinema in the early 2000’s and later adaptations got worse every time. But I still re-read it every other year and always find the experience satisfying. But I don’t re-watch Peter Jackson’s adaptation nor any of the recent crop of crap.

So great material will remain great, even as adaptations for a larger audience will fade into oblivion.

The problem lies with the fact that fans of the original cannot engage with those who haven’t experienced it, and they feel disenfranchised when most conversations revolve around the adaptations they find mediocre.

But worry not, those passing fans of mediocre crap will soon find new mediocre crap to care about. Such is the way of the world.

This is were you lost me, i’m a player playing for fun.
No Meta, no hardcore min-maxing, but roleplaying eventually
10 bucks are much money if you dont earn much money for yourself
100 bucks is nothing if your wage is 5k a month.
Everything is relative, even time :smiley:

FS is a company using shallow RNG and FOMO strategies to maximize their profit.
It made me quit a year ago after 500 hours and the anouncement of the crafting overhaul.
But i’m here again a year later for some fun immersing into WH40k and the excellent core gameplay of slaughtering heretics.
And i came back with the plan to buy commissar cosmetic and RP that, but furtunately the f… fomo Store doesnt offer it anymore and i found a way around, working on penance cosmetics for free, much better, more fun.
So the decision of not having “too much complexity of more than 3 Site in the Shop” did me a favor and saved me money :smiley:

Perspective/ the way you look at things, PoV is relevant!

As long as i can get over RNG and such and having fun with what i have i play further.
If it starts to become frustrating again i’ll pause/ quit again.

I’m around 550 hours for 40 bucks now, oh no wait i buyed a headpiece for Psyker and iirc something for zealot, so lets say 50-60 bucks.
All fine and i’m not rich nor a whale.

different mindset than me, i’m a social worker and i consider folks like you on a completely different route of life.