And? you would replace a blessing for that… still a NERF
Let’s correct you. I said Combat blade is not OP, but the combination Combat blade + shroudfield is the one that could be closed to OP (and still, when I see the damages of a skilled guy (rare) with such build, I cannot avoid to compare that with the average damage that can be dealt by a psyker (common)).
So, my opinion is that a weapon that is not OP does not deserve to be nerfed. And if you have to nerf it cause you need to rebalance something, then you have to make adjustments around it, so all other weapons.
My opinion is that the combat blade is just mediocre in term of DPS but great about mobility. If you remove this, the weapon will just suck. And the list of the weapons that are bad and never buffed is long enough tbh.
And I say that, I played a lot with this weapon, and haven’t played with it for 3 months… I am actually using an achlys combat axe or a relic blade (actually I try the mark II).
But seriously, only shroudfield builds can deal high amount of damages. And still… they are under what can be done by a skilled psyker with a staff or a good veteran using a PG or even a simple zealot with the Relic Blade X…
And let me take one time here to return to the topic… it is FAR AWAY of what can deal, in term of DPS, a Duelling Sword.
On the topic of wether it’s the speed or damage that should be addressed, I always found the rapier in VT2 to be a very satisfying weapon even though it usually did take a few stabs to kill a CW. It was defensively extremely strong, too.
I personally don’t agree that it needs anything addressed other than its absurd singletarget damage. It shouldn’t be able to oneshot/twoshot crushers consistently. It’s a little rapier, and it’s fast, it should take 4-5 stabs minimum. It makes sense for it to be a fast and defensive weapon, but it should achieve that via decent blocking and dodging, so I think the stagger on special should also be gone when targetting anything armored with it at least. Again, that’s how the VT2 rapier is balanced and it’s generally one of the most fun and strongest weapons in that game. I believe that if you nerf this weapons horde clear or dodges it won’t do anything except make it feel slightly worse while you still just remove 20 crushers in 20 stabs (so like 5 seconds) which is the busted part
Yes, But it’s a nerf that allows us speedsters to keep speeding, as opposed to just reducing the speed which is what a lot of anti-knife players propose. My solution is an alternative to a straight speed nerf.
The premise here is that IF FS is going to nerf the combat knife, I’d rather they do it THIS way. Rejecting the premise because you don’t think the knife needs to be changed is one thing, but you’re saying that this hypothetical nerf would result in a slippery slope of changes to other weapons, as if it’s a forgone conclusion.
This is the bit that doesn’t make any sense to me. The rebalance is the adjustment, making any additional adjustments around it is an assumption, not a consequence.
And the only reason this gets brought up at all when talking about the DS, is that before the DS the Combat Knife was the weapon people liked to complain about. A lot of people keep saying that the only reason folks stopped complaining was because the DS came out, and I’ve seen multiple users here call for both to be nerfed, in the same breath.
Many people see the DS as just being the knife but better, and they didn’t like how strong the knife was to begin with. I think they’re wrong, but I also think it’s very important to define the line between “Modest nerf I’d be willing to begrudgingly accept” and “Nerf that’ll tank the weapon entirely” because Fatshark has missed that line before.
Maybe an analogy would help clear this up. Let’s say that people here complain a lot about CB and Shroud. And they called for the finesse modifiers on CB/Shroud to be nerfed. It would be a leap in logic to then assume that all finesse modifiers would then be adjusted as a result.
No… why? cause you said if it we consider it as too strong and needed to be nerfed.
I say that combat blade is fine, except maybe with shroudfield.
So if we would like to nerf its mobility, it should be balanced. As I think the weapon is actually balanced, this would mean or you buff it to compensate, or you nerf the other weapons… but as I say, for me the combat blade is not the culprit…
And don’t speak about zealot that rush… 80% of players rush and don’t wait others.
Well, that’s not my experience.
My experience is that the biggest balance problem is… psykers. A skilled psyker uses to deal 20% to 33% more damages than anything others classes can deal.
Just played a maelstrom game and there was a combat blade user…
let’s say it… he has not done more melee damages.
Sure it was not a shroudfield build (3-1-1-1 = Knives + Benediction + Fury + Blazing piety - I reordered the result in my scoreboard module to follow the talents tree)
But I give you a tip… Others sources damages he did, is linked to the flames of his flamer (but not the direct hit that is handled by the game as ranged damages)
flamer is still goated, but that said. FS tends to overnerf. Or nerf items to be worse than other similar counterparts. Dual Dagger nerf for example gives you very little reason to use DD > SND in Vermintide, hopefully if they do touch dueling sword it winds up still usable.
Honestly I would like to see some of the less used weapons get some buffs, too many things feel clunky or bad to use.
Completely unrelated to the dueling sword topic, but what mods are you using to get your scoreboard looking like this? That’s a level of data I’d like to have just to review the overall composition of a mission.
My scoreboard version.
But I am not enough skilled in LUA to claim that I cannot support a mod with so many things I added several parts were taken from other mods while I created also several of them (total kills, average % restored by medikit, corruption taken, ammunitions, all counts per enemy type).
Something that also came to my mind is that the Duelling Sword is hated because it’s “multiclass”
And I know this sounds EXTREMELY OBVIOUS, but what I’m trying to say is that if stuff like Relic Blade, Power Sword and Force Sword would never get this many complaints even if they were as powerful as the Duelling Sword.
Would they be complained about if they were that powerful? Absolutely, not to the point that Duelling Sword is however, but the point I’m trying to make is that for the most part, while the Duelling Sword is broken and needs nerfs (Regardless if you think the weapon is fine in lower difficulties because the game doesn’t spam crushers and 50000000 gunners), people are just tired of seeing it in games.
I think this is pretty important when designing new weapons IMO, people will have more tolerance for exclusive class weapons that are more powerful than they should compared to multiclass weapons that have the risk of it breaching out and everyone using it regardless of class
IN FACT, this is why people RARELY complained about Duelling Sword when it was Psyker exclusive, because not every game had a psyker, and thus there could be no Duelling Swords in games
No, this is not an argument to say “Duelling Sword on Psyker was fine” because it was still broken OP and needs nerfs anyways, and me personally I’m glad it’s a multiclass melee because I main Saltzpyre in VT2 and I love the Rapier…
However this could be an important point to consider when talking about meta weapons and stuff.
Yeah. In general people hating overpowered stuff is DIRECTLY correlated to how common it is. This is a logical reaction because it makes games boring and repetitive, which is lethal to game-play loops like Darktide’s. Dualing sword is the most common thing right now so it is the most despised. Power sword used to be hated because it was also very common since Veteran was by far the most played class at the time for various meta and preference reasons.
Ideally, anything that is S+ tier meta should always be nerfed to A or B tier so people can still have fun with it without the weapon/ability/talents ruining everyone’s game-play.
Honestly it was the big tree update #13, even after VoC was nerfed some.
It’s a long and winding road, but instead of say removing infinite knife lunges they said “hey, why don’t we give current DS to the other 2 humies and nerf ogryns s’more”, and here we are.
P.S. There’s a lot of stuff that could use some toning down, never mind the stuff that needs toning up, but FS’s insistence on doing it piecemeal and haphazardly just aggravates the situation.
Agreed. Large values of Rending destroyed this game’s weapon balance. There is literally no way to fix it without nerfing or removing sources of rending (and brittle).
