Expeditions, Havoc and Mortis Trials add nothing to the base game

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
1

I’ve been noticing a sort of pattern and overarching design issue with the new gamemodes that have been added.
Ignoring the issues inherent to the gamemodes (each one you could make a gigantic writeup with on its own) I think one of the fundamental design issues with the recent design focus on new gamemodes is that none of them add anything to the base game.

To elaborate on what I mean by this, consider that for example Mortis Trials actually adds absolutely nothing “overarching” to the game. Sure, it has some bespoke mechanics in the form of boons, which is cool. But nothing about Mortis Trials as an update or as a gamemode actually enhances the game as a whole. It’s simply there, it’s a gamemode select you can pick, it exists there and nowehre else.

A player who, at any given moment, does not pick the mortis trials gamemode effectively is playing the game as if it didn’t exist. The update added absolutely nothing to the game unless you pick that specific gamemode.

This may seem obvious but contrast this with how other games implement new content. In Path of Exile, for example, the game adds a new league with a couple new mechanics seasonally. I’ll keep it simple, but in this game you can either engage with these new mechanics or ignore them if you don’t like them.
However, even if you ignore the mechanics, this new league will usually add a couple new crafts, or a couple new concepts to a fundamental base game mechanic. For example, the latest league added a crafting option that can enhance a skill gem by imbuing a support skill, which basically unlocks a couple new options for building your character.
Even if you don’t engage with the mechanic at all, each new league mechanic adds new options for building characters. Even if you choose to not play the new mechanic in that moment, the whole game is enriched by it. Even if you just want to play the good old things you’ve always played in the base game, you get more tools and toys to do it with. You want to do another leagues mechanics? You get more options to do it with.

Now what could this sort of concept look like within Darktide?

I’ll use expeditions as an example, because it actually already awards a resource: Tech-remnants. What do tech-remnants do within expeditions? They unlock new map nodes, then nothing. What do they do OUTSIDE of expeditions? Nothing.

What COULD they do with them? Many things. I’m just going to mention a few things that seem obvious to me, and coincidentally the community has asked for for a long time, and are thematically consistent with collecting tech-remnants for admech priests on board:

  • The tech-remnants could unlock red weapons, which could be implemented in a variety of ways, such as letting people modify the stat bars on their weapons (for example. There’s many things they could do with red weapons, this is just an example)
  • They could unlock new weapons in general, maybe more “specialized” admech ones like radguns, las cannons for ogryns, halberds.
  • They could unlock weapon customization, to add different iron sights to guns.
  • They could unlock cosmetic customization, like repainting armor and weapons.
  • They could unlock new blessings for existing weapons.

The thing all of these have in common is that they would not only give expeditions a nice payoff and make the tech-remnants more important and significant, it would also enrich every other gamemode, including the basegame, by adding more content to them and giving you more tools and toys to play around with.
Similar things could be added to Mortis Trials and Havoc. For example, Mortis Trials could reward 1 unique passive skill based on a mortis archetype, that can be added to any character as part of a build, to further customization. Even cosmetic and fun things work for this: Havoc could add gestures and voicelines that can be used ingame, for example.

Unfortunately the current implementation of each new gamemode is a silo. Nothing you do in it matters outside of it. I think this could be far more interesting. In combination with adding more missions and weapons in general, the game could be far more fleshed out and offer way more variety. Fatshark should focus on adding content that enriches the whole game, not just the gamemode you play at that time.

2

I agree with everything, but I am also very uninterested in expeditions as a game-mode as well. I usually grind through the events to get the sad rewards - but with the expeditions event I played one game and was bored immediately. Ater winning once, I felt as if I had seen it all, and had no motivation to try it again.

The maps are very boring and while I agree that it all feels pointless - the regular missions are also pointless to a longtime player in a way. We really don’t need resources but play the missions because they’re fun of course.

3

Strongly agree with this angle and that’s sort of the point I’m trying to make. The base missions are the most replayable thing about Darktide so far, so these side-modes should make the base missions more fun by adding new things.
Obviously just not adding side-modes and just straight up adding these features would work too. But they’re nice opportunities to implement it all into a coherent whole.

Another thread had a poll that enhances this point: Most players initially liked Expeditions, but then they stopped playing it or stopped enjoying it. The takeaway I get from this is that anything is going to be fun if it’s novel, and I did have some fun with expeditions due to it being novel too. But since it’s not replayable, and it adds nothing to the base game, it’s now basically a dead update that added nothing to the actually replayable part of the game.

4

Yes, they compartmentalize their work instead of just adding to it as a whole. This is why people love new weapons; they change the main way you interact with the game systems. The Pickaxe remains one of my favorite weapons in a ‘tide game for its simple-on-the-surface but excellently-designed moveset.

5

Please, do not add any actual important progression use to Tech Remnants. Or at least don’t make it be exclusive to them. I don’t want to play FS’s stupid speedrunning mode for upgrades.

If you’re able to use Remnants or Diamantine/Plasteel then go for it.

6

In retrospect that seems bad but let me ask you: Did you progress through all the nodes on expeditions?

I did and I feel like I “finished” the gamemode. I don’t want to play it anymore either, even though I think experiencing everything the mode had to offer wasn’t really a bad experience (other than some balance frustrations).
But I’m not suggesting a grind, I’m suggesting a reward for finishing it that then benefits the basegame. If they HAD launched expeditions with the payoff of unlocking such a system when progressing through all the nodes, the design would be good and not overbearing, I think. If they were to add something like this retrospectively, it should just unlock automatically for the people who already beat expeditions.

7

No, and I don’t intend to.

If the reward was just for finishing the current map I would stomach through it. And I agree for the mode to have any reason to play it, Tech Remnants need to have a purpose outside of penance farming. (Speaking of, why would you release a mode entirely based around earning and losing a currency that is completely useless?)

Honestly though I think the best solution is to add something to spend them on, that can also be bought for normal game materials as well. So then you can choose which game mode you like, and the risk reward part of Expeditions actually makes sense.

8

Yes, I’ve hated this for a while now. Its even worse for me because my server doesn’t have a large population, and that population gets split even more over the various difficulties and modes. The end result is I can’t play Mortis Trials, Expeditions or usually even Havoc with other people because there are rarely people doing them outside of prime time.

9

Fair enough and maybe those kind of things should work that way. But maybe if the gamemode was by design meant to just be beaten and not a replay-focused-grind, it would be tuned less annoyingly. I think a lot of whats wrong with expeditions comes down to them tuning it as a grind with nothing to grind for. If it had a reward and wasn’t a grind I think it’d solve both.

In the end I just think they need to focus on not making updates that don’t benefit the whole game really, and since they seem intent on making new gamemodes very few people actually wanted both approaches would work, a currency exchange would be a pretty simple thing for sure

10

It’s started even before with Orthus offensive. Sure Twins can spawn in any other mode, but what’s the reason to have a dedicated map for them then with unique combat scenario? I remeber arguing about it and some people were saying that it’s just a narrative map, there is no need for it to bring replayability value.

And look where we are now, trend continues.

And for Havoc - just make it to be similar to PoE leagues: separate balance from regular mode, make crazy buffs and crazy nerfs, those will end up popular should go core mode after Havoc season ends. Anyone who don’t like current season can just play normal mode.

Also bring back characters’ personal rooms, just like there were such in V2. Copypaste Outlast Trials housing so we can decorate personal room. Here is your another materials sink.

Weapon/armour color schemes (lol go buy reskin mtx pleb).

11

I thought you were going a different direction with your suggestion more akin to mine:

If they figured out a way for the “UI to handle it” and implemented new game modes in this fashion, I’d say let your game mode flags fly, FS.

I know that gets me stoned around here but the biggest sin of these new modes is the splitting of the players, imo.

Some version of my suggestion should alleviate that.

Havoc remains it’s own mode of course.

But imagine Expeditions as a permanent main mission type, available at every difficulty, that refreshes, let’s say, hourly, bringing in a new modifier combo and tileset/POI layout. Drop the node map nonsense and give tech remnants another purpose (like has to already be coming, right guys…) and boom, no dead game mode.

Mortis gets the same treatment excepting it should maybe be treated like Maelstoms and not in the QP pool since that can really take the fun and purpose out of it when joining too late. But I can go either way.

Now they get the same treatment as current disliked missions/modifiers and people that don’t like them either leave immediately or don’t queue.
The rest of us can get a real fresh Quickplay experience between 2 distinctly different takes on the DT formula (adventure mode/Expeditions) + Mortis Trials all from the main mission terminal.

12

I think that’d just be fundamentally be the best way for them to use their effort and need to invent new things. As in, even if it’s not new gamemodes in practice anymore then, making new maps with cool unique mechanics that only pop up in that map is something that I would really appreciate, keeps quickplay fresh. If they’re TOO crazy they can always be operations and quickplay excluded.

13

I kind of agree but FS has dug their own grave with progression mechanics. Gating has primarily been constrained to Penance unlocks rather than power, by popular request.

Stop doing rEteNtioN and start doing Player Agency imo.

When I play expeditions, I have a narrow view of the maps I will engage with based on my progress. Progress which is rather slow and heavily win-gated (no resources for losing) which translates to real hours. I wouldn’t be surprised if most players were <50% progressed.

Stretch these players out across the 10-or-so maps, give them little-to-no incentive to replay old maps, and you have a recipe for disaster. It’s already a crap-shoot if I’ll get a full lobby. What I’m saying is that if I needed to beat map 10 for a reward I could take into standard maps, I’d be one unhappy camper.

I’d rather have it add nothing to the base game, than detract significantly from it.

Anyways, I think the situation would be considerably ameliorated by having a lobby browser or some such. Then you could have a wide view as a player on what’s being played and “viable” at the present moment. Then, you could tie significant rewards to the mode, because it would be integrated and accessible.

14

BTW random offshoot, I think Mortis Trials would’ve been more successful if it just took place in normal maps rather than static arenas. Have progression points trigger your upgrade nodes, and the match get harder and harder the closer you get to the end. Harder than Auric Maelstrom but not into Havoc levels.

It would keep the flow of the main game in tact, give a crazy mode with high difficulty and stronger characters, and every new map added would’ve also worked in Mortis.