When they said they “built this for replayability” what they meant is “you’re gonna be playing the same map over and over again with slight variations because the game doesn’t let you move on if you don’t”
As it is I’ve pretty much lost interest already after unlocking 3 nodes. Like what you want me to grind the 30 minute low intensity mission, like 6 times to unlock a mission with less items in the shop? Who cares? I’m going to wait until people unlock the rest so they can tell me if any of the modifiers actually makethis map feel different. As I said, didn’t even unlock half the nodes yet and I’m already tired of this map.
Who thought this was compelling replayability? It’s just the same objectives over and over in the same tiny “open world” map with modifiers that don’t matter. Why am I unlocking a “night mission”? That should just be a random variable. You stretched content that would’ve been cool for maybe 3, 4 runs across a projected 15-20 runs. At least release something like this with multiple maps, what the hell man
With the linear canned missions I have them memorised to the point I can kite through them backwards without hitting an obstacle, and I know all of the best positioning and defensive points and the high risk spots to avoid.
With expeditions there’s a million different vectors and approaches and if im not aware I can get cornered. It’s like an extra dimension to the DT formula that I only really get to experience when a map is brand new on the mission board
See I felt the same way because it’s a new map. But I’ve already learned the map after playing it a couple times. Do you not see yourself just learning the map too and then losing interest?
This is basically 1 linear mission, but with different objectives but it’s still just one mission. It may have a little bit more space to it but in the end you still learn the like, 8 possible locations and just know them.
If this had 3-4 different map variants and WAY more points of interest it would be fairly interesting but I feel like i’ve already seen everything and the game wants me to grind every mission another 6 times to continue doing the same map with the same points of interest. The design doesn’t really work.
This whole “huge content drop” could’ve been an operations map a la train mission and been a cool map to add alongside the regular missions, on the regular mission board. The tech remnant system adds nothing. The metaprogression is a pointless waste of time, serving only to unlock the same mission but with hunting grounds. If it was a regular mission I wouldn’t have to grind 10 missions to unlock that.
For my part I like the new map (I assume there’s more than 1 though). I’ve only played the first couple (second one is just night mode #1?) but it’s solid. Lots of paths between obj’s, and plenty of wide open space to get torn to pieces by shooters.
The obj’s tend to be nice arenas with good cover, chokes etc. so it’s a nice rhythm of runrunrun through the death trap and holdholdhold for the obj.
I’mma be honest I have no real notion about the value of the loot. I guess it took 3-5 maps to unlock the second one, and I was honestly glad to see the same map a few times so I could establish some familiarity – and even now I’m sure there are nooks and crannies I’ve yet to explore!
So idk about this, I don’t have this concern at all. Because I (and many others) have been playing the same damn maps for years now. And I wouldn’t say I’ve truly “learned” a map until I’ve played it many many times – and honestly right now I do see myself playing expeditions many more times. And I haven’t gotten legitimately tired of any map I can think of.
I wouldn’t prefer to play a standard map back-to-back, because the flow is identical. But Expeditions mixes it up well enough where you don’t know what to expect, and that’s been enough for me. But it’s early days, we’ll see if the apathy comes
Again though, here’s hoping that my already low-pop region supports yet another splintering of the playerbase… Although I’ve played some unforced duos already and it’s a nicer experience than a standard mission because you aren’t forced to do certain objectives that are disproportionately difficult, and avoiding patrols becomes more meaningful. The bots perform far worse though, lol.
mm I dont disagree that it could have been a mission on the main board.
Making it a seperate mode is also fine, but they really needed to do quite a bit more to justify it.
My previous suggestions have been to add the more interesting perks from mortis trials that allows some interesting builds you can do in the sanctuaries, extend the number of sections to 5+ like the last unlocked expedition, and to give a crafting resource that lets you craft scopes and lights for guns.
If they had done that and an additional map, maybe also spicy end events, it would have been a lot better recieved imo.
This is partly an expectations thing with a seperate mode just having a higher bar to cross
AFAICT there are two sets of tiles that are picked from when building a map. So other than which set of tiles is selected, the only other difference between map points is the modifier. Sure there are an absurdly high number of variations of map layouts but every one is going to have 4 PoIs and an extract and a sanctuary*. And once you’ve seen a PoI it’s the same every time. Same with the connector pieces. I think this could potentially be interesting, lots of other games manage to do this but so many of the aspects of those games is missing here.
It feels like a structural update right now, mixed with ‘it’s a bit too grindy to get to the next map.’
More to the point, this system is deeply expandable and modular in a way regular missions aren’t, presumably because they can’t run more than 5-10 maps simultaneously on their server architecture, so they have to keep map count down and instance the same map a couple hundred times instead.
While it’s a bit boring having the same 2 or 3 maps over and over for expeditions, having randomized spawn locations and objectives does a lot to make it fun. There’s a reason HD2 is so popular despite the dev’s horrific mishandling of balance, and while it’s not better procedural map generation, it’s still pretty good in my eyes for what it is. And I look forward to the devs expanding on it more with new POIs, more expedition maps, and more biomes for said maps. Not being inside the hive city is a breath of fresh air. In this case, too fresh.
I’ve played enough of the mode now to “get it”. As in, I understand the general concept and can execute it (team willing). I see how there are probably optimal paths like potentially speedrunning the first two zones (just grabbing enough scrap to get some items in the shop) and then move to the final one to do thoroughly. Maybe not optimal, but at least I’m seeing you can plan.
Aaaaaand . . . it’s still not fun? It feels very, very half-baked in execution. A lot of quality of life and gameplay nuances completely absent. I can imagine that people will probably figure out quickly the most optimal way to play and then just do that to grind for the mid-tier cosmetics.
If some people are enjoying it, then all power to them, but for me - and I think a lot of others - this is a complete waste of an update.
I agree with this but I’ll be honest, past precedent says they’ll just leave it in this stage and maybe add a couple new salvage items in a year. Mortis Trials is also actually full of potential and needs a rework to realize it, but instead they added more perks which don’t really matter when the structure isn’t fleshed out
I’ll be happy if they go somewhere with this but I wish Fatshark kept these things cooking for longer
But the ruined buildings are in slightly different spots don’t tell me you’re not impressed. It has some unique items but they cost a lot for such a small effect it’s kind of crazy that the air strike cost twice as much as a grenade refill when we all know how strong some grenades are. The way the enemies spawn seems to glitch out sometimes too I have had them just spawning out of thin air right in front of me while doing a point of interest. I just don’t get the appeal of extraction games but this one even less so since the only thing you get is the same map with a modifier as the possible unlocks and that leaves just the gameplay of minigames and combat but in a more wide open area which I’m sure some people will like but damn I thought it would be cooler.
The benefit of randomized maps is that developers can counteract you learning them by adding more tiles and complicating algorithms that connect them together. So it’s just a matter of FS willing to commit developers’ time into expanding the new mode consistently from now on. So potential is there, while static maps - well - will stay static, really little you can do there. They can’t add more than 2-3 new static maps a year apparently, and this is nothing, compared to a good map generator which can dish out a dozen kinda-new maps a day.
I’ve unlocked 5 or 6 maps now and I’m really enjoying it. The map feels vast and also labyrinthine at the same time. I recognise some set pieces but I am still finding areas that I am sure I have never been before (as in the map, not POI). Even the POI objectives seem to have multiple variations to the tasks needed.
It all looks fantastic, has fun objectives and freedom, quite a solid challenge level, and feels like a genuinely different experience to the main linear missions. I think it it’s the strongest ‘mode’ added to the game yet. Miles better than havoc or mortis IMO.
The bugs are annoying but it’s a new mode so I am giving them time to iron them out.
I can agree it (the grind) feels pointless without the incentive to balance it out, but “too grindy”? Really? I think I’ve played may be a couple dozens missions at best - and I already have 4/5 of progress done. And it’s been just a few days.. I get not all people had as much time at hand, fine - so for them it will take a couple weeks. How is it “too grindy” still? I believe their idea is to drop a new such map once a few weeks, to serve as a “puzzle” for community to unlock, that’s the idea of the mode (as it looks like so far). So take your time.
And missions feeling the same is a different problem entirely. It needs more tiles, modifiers, the generation algorithm needs improvements - and it will be much better.
What would make or break the randomized map aspect of expeditions, for me for example, is the variety of these randomized maps in terms of visuals and maybe even gameplay.
Having only a desert-like biome throughout is kind of disheartening. Even though the maps are technically different, after the 100th run they will start to feel too much the same, because it’s essentially the exact same desert over and over again.
I really hope they don’t abandon expeditions, even though the reception is mixed, and instead improve them further and add different-looking biomes. For example - snow/ice ones with snowstorms, or ice that makes you slide further while enemies also gain increased speed; a huge forest - I believe I saw a forest-like environment in one of the in-game cutscenes with Wolfer, if I’m not mistaken; or a large grotto with radioactive crystals and stalactites that could fall on you, or shortcuts that can collapse if you blow them up.
Not to mention a bunch of new POIs that are not just hacks, so they won’t be as frequent and people can tolerate them more.
Grindy is contextual. I don’t mind grinding things out so long as the grind is varied and/or has payoff. This has neither, every mission feels the same and your payoff is unlocking another mission that feels the same. Which technically I think you can just quickplay into anyway. The only reason to do it is achievements. It’s not inherently varied or sound progression-wise.
To put this into perspective I have like 2000 hours in this game, over a thousand games I’m sure, because it’s fun to just play and maybe go for an unlock. The worst grind in the game I would describe to be the level 1 to 30 with new characters past the first because it’s just so painfully boring and pointless, even though that takes like 10 games. Like yeah it’s over in 10 games but it feels like a complete waste of time because it’s not actually engaging.
Really this entire mode just feels like it was meant to have roguelike mechanics which were then scrapped. Or a slay the spire type campaign. It makes basically no sense in its current form
