Damn…those different perspectives on balance from Chinese Steam reviews are really an eye opener.
Dude managed to fit racism, toxic elitism AND what looks like death threats into 3 sentences.
Yeah, I don’t care what you have to say about ‘different perspectives’, this is an organized review bombing campaign over something trivial.
If they could manage it without the racism and entitlement I’d be happy for them since bullying developers into doing what the community wants seems to be necessary in this day and age, but they are doing it out of entitlement and with a lot of racism about how the whites are conspiring against them or some sh*t so this is something that should be shut down hard.
And it’s a pattern of behavior at this point, at least with this game.
If this review bombing represents how the ‘Chinese community’ views the game, they should be ignored entirely going forward. They won’t be, but they should.
It doesn’t force you to use these weapons
I literally completed a H40 before the update as Combat Axe Zealot with FoTF
Players feel forced because they never actually wanted or tried to learn how to deal with enemies in general without abusing crutches like DS and such (and I say this as the biggest DS fan here in the forums), and if they don’t use these they fall quickly, thus reinforcing their belief of that
Nerfing these extreme outliers would be healthy for the game
You can even imagine havoc doesn’t exist and these outliers would STILL need to be nerfed
I wouldn’t call that a gross misrepresentation, but alright, fair.
Would it be less egregious to you if I said “very high skilled players” instead of “premades”?
I play the game almost every day at least couple of matches, and I’m well familiar even with a skill of an average auric player. People play not that great even with meta loadouts, let alone off-meta.
What you call “gross misrepresentation” is actually just my view of how some people mostly playing strong premades want to control the game balancing, despite the reality of gameplay being well different (aka “auric is not easy as people say to 90% of players”), I’m not in it for kicks.
Is it gatekeeping??
How often do you play Havoc with random players just by creating an open lobby and accepting whoever applies?
Do you really think it’s not gatekeeping if you actually see how people play the game, even at Auric game, not even able to press Chorus properly BEFORE anyone goes down?
If I have 1 other strong player, always
Otherwise, I don’t care about Havoc rank as long as their build makes sense (no need to run meta, just not see abominations like picking all early Arbites talents with purple weapons)
No one is really stopping them from getting better would be my main point
Gatekeeping would be if players would require others in high rank for them to play the mode, but that’s not needed at all, people can grind and go up in the mode itself starting from below
I don’t think anyone here genuinely have problem with people that want to try higher difficulty, and if there are then they’re toxic af.
What people have problem with is when some player get into high difficulty mission and then proceed to complain about the difficulty and demanding tools/weapons to be balance around it.
You can’t help improve someone that doesn’t want to improve themself.
Though some changes that people want for Havoc is also fair, like bs rainbow buff or armor spam because literally nobody like it.
to reveal his inability to adapt when overpowered toys get rightfully taken away and this frustration is delicious 
now imagine force feeding him some footage of people actually clearing havoc 40 with the demon claw and las pistol 
the very definition of “self made man” that’s the highest praise around here should explain this vital difference in culture very clearly.
maybe it’s population density or a culture where you can’t “escape” your fellow human that makes group behavior normal, but at least around here usually people stick to themselves and tend to keep others away if possible.
traffic, groceries, co-workers after hitting the clock at work, one tends to avoid their presence and values quiet and peace.
you take a car cause you can’t stand sitting next to a stranger in the bus, you keep a few feet away at the checkout of the store etc.
same goes for personal achievements.
true there’s group activities, but i’ve yet to witness one where there’s no competition even among the same group/team.
it aint jealousy that’s at play but a competition and measuring against the performance of others rather than being “happy” to gotten somewhere as a group only.
the soccer team might win together but in the locker room it’s about who has scored the most goals.
in the gym you spot each other but then pull out the measuring tape to compare your biceps.
this aint a negative thing, it makes people push themselves for a better new self.
cause the only
one should have is to not fk up.
keep in mind we’re talking randoms here. premades with people you like, you cut em some slack and do less exciting tasks.
but randoms and playing waterboy for the team? nope, aint gonna happen.
and usually if all 4 are on their toes no one needs to.
the mere concept of boring yourself with taunting so the others score the killfeed instead of killing stuff yourself is against why I play games.
coop means we share the encounter together and don’t fk each other over on purpose.
it doesn’t entitle others to be given the lead in an encounter or others to play half-throttle.
when giving the chance, everyone takes the biggest bite out of the buffet himself to enjoy the game his way and no one’s mad about it.
it’s the same kind of people crying about space marine 2 boltgun not doing enough bodyshot(lol) dmg. Even though the shot to kill, if you hit the (generously sized + bullet magnetism) head, is about the same expected number of shots as a tabletop bolt rifle vs. tyranid warrior.
unfortunately when game is poorly designed and the imbalance issue sticks around for too long, it attracts and retains the “players” who rely on such crutches and that they would nerdrage out if crutches were made balanced.
Even today there is still no decent reason to use any melee weapon on vet beside crutchsword/duelingsword.
I really have no interest in d1ck swinging contests myself. I prefer to play Havoc with classes I like, with weapons I like, even if that means “suffering” and loses. That’s where the fun lies for me, in overcoming adversity. I begrudgingly fulfill the roles of what you should bring to Havoc, when climbing the ladder, as this or that class, because unless I play with 100% pre-mades, people just obsess about meta.
As I said elsewhere I want the game to remain challenging both in the base and Havoc difficulties. The recent direction with pumping out silly Havoc difficulty modifiers instead of acting on well documented broken / OP weapons and talents just feeds into this camp of entitled players. Some people just assume that power levels associated with the specific builds should be the new metric.
Especially the low risk ranged builds just warp what Tide games have been for a decade now. All thanks to overheat / peril management being a joke, and infinite ammo / nade / blitz printers.
Get your sh..together Fatshark or you will lose your games identity. Just as it happened with other major Swedish game studio, DICE.
nah mate, it’s my way or the highway
rick flair remains champion at this anyways
Haha, a Havoc mate of mine is finally getting his new PC tomorrow, he has the same philosophy. So that will make it easier when negotiating Havoc pub teams.
So I suppose I should …remember, and be positive 
There is.
It’s called enjoying all the content the game has to offer, rather than sticking to the strongest weapons and abilities in the game.
AKA actually having skill. All games go through balance cycles. Having a META is a given at any point in time, but it’s never the north star for game design to have a fixed META, and any game with a reasonable lifetime goes through lots of balance cycles.
In Darktide, always much more impressed watching 2-man Havoc 40’s with insane builds like tac axe / devil’s claw and random pistols than a meta run. Was boggling at Khandones recent run because he basically picked (old) Castigator’s because ‘why not, I’ve done everything else’ on a melee build where it had no obvious synergy (charge would have made much more sense).
It’s more a commentary on the human condition, I get that people want a north star that doesn’t change, but life’s just not that easy.
I’m going to preface this with the fact that I’m not the biggest fan of Havoc, and don’t actively engage with it myself because I don’t believe I’m the target audience for the mode and it doesn’t sound fun for me.
This sounds like a fundamental misunderstanding of the developer intent on the part of that subset of the playerbase. There’s nothing in the game that supports or incentivizes anything about a “Duo” 40, if this is a thing it’s a thing that one community developed on its own, it’s not a convention that appears elswhere.
The game launched with a “Hard” mode, Damnation. It got a “Harder than Hard” mode, Auric. Havoc is an “even Harder” mode, there for the very thin top edge of the playerbase that’s got more time to play and experience than most everyone else.
Case in point…
Havoc’s only been out a bit over a year, and this is enough play hours in that time to consider playing Darktide a full time job all on its own.
This would appear again to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the developer intent by a subset of the playerbase.
To the first point, as noted, the game already has Hard and Harder than Hard modes. For something like Havoc 40, the 40th level of the “even Harder” mode, no mistakes should be tolerated, everyone should be bringing their S-tier game, otherwise the inherent and fundamental point of its existence is undermined. If you want to play challenging game mode where you can make a mistake and still count on your teammates save your bacon consistently, Auric exists.
To the second point, Havoc shouldn’t actively gatekeep, but it shouldn’t be accessible to all. Havoc should be available to everyone to make their attempt at, but rank 40 shouldn’t be something everyone can achieve and maintain as a matter of course.
By the time you’re playing H40, you should already be leveled and well geared and you’re the least likely to need these resources. Nobody should be seeing havoc as “Must-Clear”, if they are, then something is wrong for a variety of reasons.
given the choice I rather do this than selling my time for money out of necessity 
especially if someone hasn’t to deal with the chores of employment yet or anymore.
my point stands, no decent reason
In our view, players do not believe that developers’ intentions can control how players behave in the game. To put it more clearly, if developers really want players to go in a certain direction, they should block all other paths in the game, either through hard restrictions or soft guidance.
Coming back to the Cataclysm mode, we do not think it is wrong to play against the developers’ original intention. We have a strategy that allows even four casual or non-hardcore players to clear Cataclysm consistently. Besides, this mode rewards far more upgrade materials than any other mode. All these facts show that, no matter what the developers originally planned, Cataclysm as it is currently designed is not a mode only for a small group of hardcore players.
If players behave differently from what the developers intended, it is not the players’ fault but a design mistake by the developers. Players should not be punished for the developers’ errors.
I don’t understand how this is even possible. How can someone achieve Havoc 40 by playing only a little? In my mind, a player who plays a little is a Heresy-level player (and not even High Intensity at that). If Chinese players can reach H40 even when they play a little, then what are those Chinese players who play a lot capable of? Are they capable of doing ten duo runs a day without getting a single scratch?
For context, I have 600 hours in the game. I’m running what is probably the tankiest build, Fatmangus, and my personal best is only H21. H25 is my dream
sigh I don’t really want to wade into the pool of BIG BIG FEELINGS …
Developers: You can’t shoot infinitely because ammo is intended to be a limited resource in this game. So we stopped you from doing so.
Knight, representing some population: Developers need to block all paths through hard restriction if they don’t want us to play this game a certain way.
Insert any of a dozen confused emojis. Are you genuinely serious? They literally did what you asked.